GatewayRedbirds.com

A Message Board Dedicated to Discussing St. Louis Cardinals Baseball!
It is currently July 19 19, 2:03 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 98 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 5:30 pm 
Offline
Replies Authoritatively
User avatar

Joined: April 7 13, 9:45 am
Posts: 6915
Location: Chicago, IL
pioneer98 wrote:
Swirls wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:
Swirls wrote:
Unfortunately the use of actual logic seems to escape the Trump blowhards. My entire damn FB feed yesterday was full of something along the lines of, "OMG I can't believe Cohen is on TV, I can't stand this guy for lying to Congress! Why's he up there now? You can't trust a word he says!"



This is the stuff that puts the "fundamental" in "fundamentalism." Clearly defined binaries are one of the basic building block features of fundamentalism in religion and politics. Cohen did some bad things and therefore is all bad and can't be trusted. A woman who gets an abortion has done a bad thing and therefore is entirely bad--"baby killer." Donald Trump is, in their view, good for being a racist misogynist xenophobe fear- and hate-monger and therefore is all good--he could not possibly be lying, or colluding, or cheating people, or conning people. A person is either good or bad, right or wrong, with us or against us, and there isn't any room for gray or nuance or probability scales. Pair that with a leader they find charismatic and it's a hell of a thing.


A few weeks ago I got into one hell of a political argument with an old co-worker from New York regarding "the wall." It actually went on for multiple days and ended with about 20 different people chiming in against this one person who was defending Trump's actions. It was honestly kind of sad, but almost comical at the same time. No matter what evidence (with links) was provided, he refused to believe them and accused everyone of being blind sheep who copy/paste links from google - he "traveled extensively" for work and all of his views and statements came from his own eyes at being in places like El Paso or Arizona.

He would repeatedly say you cannot trust any news outlet, no matter what party they were tied to, as all their information is inaccurate. Yet he regurgitates Trump tweets as gospel. When he would be called out on it, he would usually deflect into saying that his information is correct because he's seen firsthand how accurate it is. He'd say he was in a truck stop in Texas and saw a bunch of kids speaking Spanish - clearly it's an illegal immigration problem. Violence is up in border towns (everyone knows it's not), drugs are smuggled in at the border (everyone knows they're not), they're taking jobs away from American workers (everyone knows they're not, as most lazy Americans would consider the manual labor they do to be beneath them), etc.

It just went on and on and on. "Stop being a sheep and make your own decisions based on actual observations." Yet he continued to do the opposite.

*shakes head in pity*



I think the guy knows he is wrong.


Yeah but does he though? Like, does he really, deep down, know that he's wrong? Did the 9/11 bombers know they were wrong? Do people who bomb Planned Parenthoods know they're wrong? Did IRA bombers know they were wrong? Does Dick Cheney know that lying to the American people to start a war in Iraq was wrong? Does Trump know that his lying is wrong? Do people who think RBI is a telling stat know they're wrong?

That's the thing about fundamentalism is that you don't know you're wrong. If you denied climate change and therefore helped speed up the destruction of our planet by your vote as a citizen or legislation as an elected official, how could you live with yourself? If you hurt or killed people bombing a church or a PP or flying a plane into a building and you knew it was wrong, how could you live with yourself? If you hate Mexican people to the point that every time you hear them speak in their native language you hate them and decide in your mind that they don't deserve to be in your country, and you know that this is wrong, how do you live with yourself? The only way these people can look themselves in the mirror, sleep at night, and continue to act and pray and believe the way they do is they don't know that they're wrong.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 8:02 pm 
Offline
Hall Of Famer

Joined: June 26 06, 8:54 pm
Posts: 11118
Location: kintore/yuendumu
33anda3rd wrote:
greenback44 wrote:
Freed Roger wrote:
Wish I had some time.

every person on earth knows Trump is a lying criminal and all around phony and horrible person.

That said - Let me know if one single GOP breaks ranks or doesnt actively run interference on their MAGA hero's behalf.

Because that is all that matters.

Yes. I'm having trouble understanding why anyone paid close attention to today's spectacle. Depressing as the situation is, it's pretty clear that the GOP will continue to circle the wagons.


It was highly entertaining television.

It was boring as hell. The whole scene was the most predictable, color-by-numbers (or numbers-by-color, I guess) presentation possible. A bunch of peacocks mugged for the cameras. Nothing of value or note came from that session.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 10:54 pm 
Offline
Replies Authoritatively
User avatar

Joined: April 7 13, 9:45 am
Posts: 6915
Location: Chicago, IL
greenback44 wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:
greenback44 wrote:
Freed Roger wrote:
Wish I had some time.

every person on earth knows Trump is a lying criminal and all around phony and horrible person.

That said - Let me know if one single GOP breaks ranks or doesnt actively run interference on their MAGA hero's behalf.

Because that is all that matters.

Yes. I'm having trouble understanding why anyone paid close attention to today's spectacle. Depressing as the situation is, it's pretty clear that the GOP will continue to circle the wagons.


It was highly entertaining television.

It was boring as hell. The whole scene was the most predictable, color-by-numbers (or numbers-by-color, I guess) presentation possible. A bunch of peacocks mugged for the cameras. Nothing of value or note came from that session.


The old white guy screaming that he couldn't be racist because he has "nieces and nephews who are people of color" and who brought out the token black employee of the Trump presidency to demonstrate how totally not racist Trump is was. Mothergrabbing. Awesome.

The crazy Texas GOP lunatic at the end there citing people being arrested at the border as evidence of how the hearing (on the actual sitting President's alleged treason) is a waste of time was remarkably entertaining.

Cohen scolding the GOP for their failure to ask him one single question about Trump and Trump's actions, and almost half the actual US Congress not then being able to answer to a simple challenge by a convicted felon and liar was uproariously funny.

That they asked him like 15 times if he went to Prague and that he kept saying he'd never been to Prague and them then citing a conservative magazine and asking again if he'd ever been to Prague while he just kept saying "nah, never been" was hilarious. It was like if they kept repeating a question about a popular alt-right lie, Cohen would change his answer.

And so much more.

Granted, these Republicans actions and questions and statements are the comedic equivalent of an adult man racking his balls on an inanimate and immobile piece of household furniture, so you have to find that America's Funniest Home Videos kind of humor funny. Which personally I do.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 10:57 pm 
Offline
Seeking a Zubaz seamstress

Joined: September 4 07, 1:48 pm
Posts: 23926
Location: St. Louis
greenback44 wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:
greenback44 wrote:
Freed Roger wrote:
Wish I had some time.

every person on earth knows Trump is a lying criminal and all around phony and horrible person.

That said - Let me know if one single GOP breaks ranks or doesnt actively run interference on their MAGA hero's behalf.

Because that is all that matters.

Yes. I'm having trouble understanding why anyone paid close attention to today's spectacle. Depressing as the situation is, it's pretty clear that the GOP will continue to circle the wagons.


It was highly entertaining television.

It was boring as hell. The whole scene was the most predictable, color-by-numbers (or numbers-by-color, I guess) presentation possible. A bunch of peacocks mugged for the cameras. Nothing of value or note came from that session.

I haven't watched it.
One thing to bear in mind -to a good chunk of US, this actually is fresh news, instead of shining a light on stuff already mostly known. There was a survey a while back, some crazy portion of country unaware of convictions of Trump associates.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 11:03 pm 
Offline
Hall Of Famer
User avatar

Joined: July 15 08, 8:24 pm
Posts: 19423
Location: Low A Minors
33anda3rd wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:
Swirls wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:
Swirls wrote:
Unfortunately the use of actual logic seems to escape the Trump blowhards. My entire damn FB feed yesterday was full of something along the lines of, "OMG I can't believe Cohen is on TV, I can't stand this guy for lying to Congress! Why's he up there now? You can't trust a word he says!"



This is the stuff that puts the "fundamental" in "fundamentalism." Clearly defined binaries are one of the basic building block features of fundamentalism in religion and politics. Cohen did some bad things and therefore is all bad and can't be trusted. A woman who gets an abortion has done a bad thing and therefore is entirely bad--"baby killer." Donald Trump is, in their view, good for being a racist misogynist xenophobe fear- and hate-monger and therefore is all good--he could not possibly be lying, or colluding, or cheating people, or conning people. A person is either good or bad, right or wrong, with us or against us, and there isn't any room for gray or nuance or probability scales. Pair that with a leader they find charismatic and it's a hell of a thing.


A few weeks ago I got into one hell of a political argument with an old co-worker from New York regarding "the wall." It actually went on for multiple days and ended with about 20 different people chiming in against this one person who was defending Trump's actions. It was honestly kind of sad, but almost comical at the same time. No matter what evidence (with links) was provided, he refused to believe them and accused everyone of being blind sheep who copy/paste links from google - he "traveled extensively" for work and all of his views and statements came from his own eyes at being in places like El Paso or Arizona.

He would repeatedly say you cannot trust any news outlet, no matter what party they were tied to, as all their information is inaccurate. Yet he regurgitates Trump tweets as gospel. When he would be called out on it, he would usually deflect into saying that his information is correct because he's seen firsthand how accurate it is. He'd say he was in a truck stop in Texas and saw a bunch of kids speaking Spanish - clearly it's an illegal immigration problem. Violence is up in border towns (everyone knows it's not), drugs are smuggled in at the border (everyone knows they're not), they're taking jobs away from American workers (everyone knows they're not, as most lazy Americans would consider the manual labor they do to be beneath them), etc.

It just went on and on and on. "Stop being a sheep and make your own decisions based on actual observations." Yet he continued to do the opposite.

*shakes head in pity*



I think the guy knows he is wrong.


Yeah but does he though? Like, does he really, deep down, know that he's wrong? Did the 9/11 bombers know they were wrong? Do people who bomb Planned Parenthoods know they're wrong? Did IRA bombers know they were wrong? Does Dick Cheney know that lying to the American people to start a war in Iraq was wrong? Does Trump know that his lying is wrong? Do people who think RBI is a telling stat know they're wrong?

That's the thing about fundamentalism is that you don't know you're wrong. If you denied climate change and therefore helped speed up the destruction of our planet by your vote as a citizen or legislation as an elected official, how could you live with yourself? If you hurt or killed people bombing a church or a PP or flying a plane into a building and you knew it was wrong, how could you live with yourself? If you hate Mexican people to the point that every time you hear them speak in their native language you hate them and decide in your mind that they don't deserve to be in your country, and you know that this is wrong, how do you live with yourself? The only way these people can look themselves in the mirror, sleep at night, and continue to act and pray and believe the way they do is they don't know that they're wrong.



I think we are saying the same thing but you probably said it clearer. Yeah, deep down they believe their position is correct. But they know saying "I hate brown people and think they are inferior and that's why I don't want them in my country" is socially unacceptable. So they make up crap about crime stats in El Paso instead.

With climate change, I do think most of them understand the climate is changing, but they just don't see it as a big deal, and deep down they believe they are correct in thinking it is not a big deal. They don't care if California burns forever or Bengladesh gets covered by the ocean. In fact, these may even be desirable outcomes to some of these psychos.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: March 1 19, 3:13 pm 
Offline
Replies Authoritatively
User avatar

Joined: April 7 13, 9:45 am
Posts: 6915
Location: Chicago, IL
pioneer98 wrote:
I think we are saying the same thing but you probably said it clearer. Yeah, deep down they believe their position is correct. But they know saying "I hate brown people and think they are inferior and that's why I don't want them in my country" is socially unacceptable. So they make up crap about crime stats in El Paso instead.


I legit don't think they know that. Or at least all of them don't know that. My mother in law is a racist old Irish Catholic lady. I've heard her say, literally, "I hate the Chinese" and I've heard her say along the lines of "Mexicans don't belong here." I'm 100% sure she does not know that this is wrong, that it's racist, that it's socially unacceptable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: March 1 19, 6:41 pm 
Offline
There's someone in my head but it's not me
User avatar

Joined: April 18 06, 5:08 pm
Posts: 43392
Location: Clowns to the left of me. Jokers to the right. Here I am.
33anda3rd wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:
I think we are saying the same thing but you probably said it clearer. Yeah, deep down they believe their position is correct. But they know saying "I hate brown people and think they are inferior and that's why I don't want them in my country" is socially unacceptable. So they make up crap about crime stats in El Paso instead.


I legit don't think they know that. Or at least all of them don't know that. My mother in law is a racist old Irish Catholic lady. I've heard her say, literally, "I hate the Chinese" and I've heard her say along the lines of "Mexicans don't belong here." I'm 100% sure she does not know that this is wrong, that it's racist, that it's socially unacceptable.

But does she like moo goo gai pan and tacos?

I had a good interaction a couple of weeks ago. Drove to an event with a guy I barely knew. Got talking about politics and I mentioned something I saw on CNN. He went on a rant about fake news. I asked if he ever watched it. No, he only watches Fox News, says his wife does CNN. We ended up having a wide-ranging discussion - I didn’t hold back, spoke my mind about Trumpland. Actually made him think. I dropped him off and told him to step out of the Fox bubble. That night got the following email from him: “Just a short note to thank you for driving this afternoon. I also very much appreciated the conversation. My wife was surprised I sat down with her as she watched CNN. I didn't feel triggered!”


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: March 1 19, 6:49 pm 
Offline
Hall Of Famer
User avatar

Joined: October 12 06, 2:21 pm
Posts: 16450
Location: Baseball Ref Bullpen
Radbird wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:
I think we are saying the same thing but you probably said it clearer. Yeah, deep down they believe their position is correct. But they know saying "I hate brown people and think they are inferior and that's why I don't want them in my country" is socially unacceptable. So they make up crap about crime stats in El Paso instead.


I legit don't think they know that. Or at least all of them don't know that. My mother in law is a racist old Irish Catholic lady. I've heard her say, literally, "I hate the Chinese" and I've heard her say along the lines of "Mexicans don't belong here." I'm 100% sure she does not know that this is wrong, that it's racist, that it's socially unacceptable.

But does she like moo goo gai pan and tacos?

I had a good interaction a couple of weeks ago. Drove to an event with a guy I barely knew. Got talking about politics and I mentioned something I saw on CNN. He went on a rant about fake news. I asked if he ever watched it. No, he only watches Fox News, says his wife does CNN. We ended up having a wide-ranging discussion - I didn’t hold back, spoke my mind about Trumpland. Actually made him think. I dropped him off and told him to step out of the Fox bubble. That night got the following email from him: “Just a short note to thank you for driving this afternoon. I also very much appreciated the conversation. My wife was surprised I sat down with her as she watched CNN. I didn't feel triggered!”


Can we get an AMEN?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 98 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group