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PostPosted: April 17 19, 2:01 pm 
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There's someone in my head but it's not me
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Location: Clowns to the left of me. Jokers to the right. Here I am.
But on a more serious note....


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PostPosted: April 17 19, 2:31 pm 
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Radbird wrote:
But on a more serious note....

Ed, you've been added to the naughty list this Christmas.


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PostPosted: April 17 19, 2:57 pm 
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Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:
The news about the other church fire is still enlightening.

Reaction of the rich to the Notre Dame fire teaches us a lot about the world we live in
Quote:
If two men in a world of more than 7 billion people can provide €300million to restore Notre Dame, within six hours, then there is enough money in the world to feed every mouth, shelter every family and educate every child. The failure to do so is a matter of will, and a matter of system.

The failure to do so comes from our failure to recognise the mundane emergencies that claims lives all around us every single day. Works of art and architectural history and beauty rely on the ingenuity of people, and it is people who must be protected above all else.

This is very true. I've said it before as well. Our problems are moral problems and problems of character. Capitalist wasn't hyper-capitalists until their selfish impulses (given shelter behind the ruberic of 'libertarianism') drove them to make the decision that more-and-bigger was always better even to the detriment of the system itself.



Capitalism has always been about bigger and better - it's not enough to have profits, you need growing profits every year, every quarter. This is the system that brought us chattel slavery, child labor, global warming and so on. We happen to be living at a time when wealth inequality is at an extreme but even when wealth wasn't this out of whack, the system was still trying to pull us in this direction...and it eventually got us here


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PostPosted: April 17 19, 3:28 pm 
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pioneer98 wrote:
Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:
The news about the other church fire is still enlightening.

Reaction of the rich to the Notre Dame fire teaches us a lot about the world we live in
Quote:
If two men in a world of more than 7 billion people can provide €300million to restore Notre Dame, within six hours, then there is enough money in the world to feed every mouth, shelter every family and educate every child. The failure to do so is a matter of will, and a matter of system.

The failure to do so comes from our failure to recognise the mundane emergencies that claims lives all around us every single day. Works of art and architectural history and beauty rely on the ingenuity of people, and it is people who must be protected above all else.

This is very true. I've said it before as well. Our problems are moral problems and problems of character. Capitalist wasn't hyper-capitalists until their selfish impulses (given shelter behind the ruberic of 'libertarianism') drove them to make the decision that more-and-bigger was always better even to the detriment of the system itself.



Capitalism has always been about bigger and better - it's not enough to have profits, you need growing profits every year, every quarter. This is the system that brought us chattel slavery, child labor, global warming and so on. We happen to be living at a time when wealth inequality is at an extreme but even when wealth wasn't this out of whack, the system was still trying to pull us in this direction...and it eventually got us here

But capitalism has worked when wedded to sensible regulation. After each of the Roosevelts for instance.

Socialism can go too far too or it can be done in a long term sensible fashion where people's incentives to be creative and innovative are rewarded while providing for all.

In my book, it's not the system, it's the people behind the system.

Moderation In All Things.


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PostPosted: April 17 19, 11:07 pm 
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Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:
Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:
The news about the other church fire is still enlightening.

Reaction of the rich to the Notre Dame fire teaches us a lot about the world we live in
Quote:
If two men in a world of more than 7 billion people can provide €300million to restore Notre Dame, within six hours, then there is enough money in the world to feed every mouth, shelter every family and educate every child. The failure to do so is a matter of will, and a matter of system.

The failure to do so comes from our failure to recognise the mundane emergencies that claims lives all around us every single day. Works of art and architectural history and beauty rely on the ingenuity of people, and it is people who must be protected above all else.

This is very true. I've said it before as well. Our problems are moral problems and problems of character. Capitalist wasn't hyper-capitalists until their selfish impulses (given shelter behind the ruberic of 'libertarianism') drove them to make the decision that more-and-bigger was always better even to the detriment of the system itself.



Capitalism has always been about bigger and better - it's not enough to have profits, you need growing profits every year, every quarter. This is the system that brought us chattel slavery, child labor, global warming and so on. We happen to be living at a time when wealth inequality is at an extreme but even when wealth wasn't this out of whack, the system was still trying to pull us in this direction...and it eventually got us here

But capitalism has worked when wedded to sensible regulation. After each of the Roosevelts for instance.

Socialism can go too far too or it can be done in a long term sensible fashion where people's incentives to be creative and innovative are rewarded while providing for all.

In my book, it's not the system, it's the people behind the system.

Moderation In All Things.



People don't always need incentives to be creative and innovative. There are millions of examples where they didn't, and remember that gobs and gobs of innovation happened before this global version of capitalism took root in the last few hundred years.

I still say the system is part of the problem. It drives a lot of the behavior of the people. I do kind of agree that it's not necessarily a socialism vs capitalism argument though. It's more of a True Democracy vs Oligarchy or Authoritarism (or whatever else) question. One example: "creative destruction". You pretty much have to have some amount of it to keep innovation going in any system. The USSR's bureaucracy became too rigid and they could not replace things that needed improvement. Powerful dudes in their hierarchy protected their turf from being foreclosed and replaced. Does "propping up failing ventures" sound familiar though? So a good quality of any system would be to not allow certain people to get so powerful that they keep failing companies/bureaus/whatever from living beyond their useful life. I could give lots of other examples but you get the idea.


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PostPosted: May 2 19, 9:41 am 
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just can't quit you.
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https://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/north-phoenix/large-blaze-breaks-out-at-north-phoenixs-st-josephs-catholic-church-wednesday

This was my church for a short time when I lived in that area of town.


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