GatewayRedbirds.com

A Message Board Dedicated to Discussing St. Louis Cardinals Baseball!
It is currently July 17 19, 1:06 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 199 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Georgia abortion law
PostPosted: May 22 19, 9:01 am 
Offline
Replies Authoritatively
User avatar

Joined: April 7 13, 9:45 am
Posts: 6884
Location: Chicago, IL
MAGA wrote:
“MAGA pussies”
“Exterminate Republicans”
“Kill them all.”

THAT talk is okay because it fits your personal agenda.

Later.


Bye, homie.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Georgia abortion law
PostPosted: May 22 19, 9:35 am 
Offline
gone fission
User avatar

Joined: December 11 07, 4:15 pm
Posts: 7894
Location: Twin Cities, MN
wellbye.gif


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Georgia abortion law
PostPosted: May 22 19, 10:00 am 
Offline
Hall Of Famer
User avatar

Joined: July 15 08, 8:24 pm
Posts: 19414
Location: Low A Minors
MAGA wrote:
Yes, and again, just because it isn’t common doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be put forth as a question.

The question stands.


I didn't say it was not common, I said it NEVER happens. The burden of proof is on you to go track down an example where a woman just decided at 8 months she wanted an abortion for the hell of it and there were no complicating factors like risk to her own life involved.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Georgia abortion law
PostPosted: May 22 19, 10:12 am 
Offline
just can't quit you.
User avatar

Joined: April 18 06, 4:33 pm
Posts: 23956
Location: Lost
I know I said I was out....but.

In the Geddy post - the person who is refusing to give a bone marrow or some such thing is certainly within their rights. No matter the moral issues.

Just a few questions.

Say the person refusing to help is directly responsible for the person having cancer? Say, they were the reason, through negligence, or accident, for that person being exposed to the carcinogen that caused the cancer. I think they can't be forced to give up their body autonomy to help this person, but they can be forced to give up their freedom, financial freedom, and even their future.

Also, in the bodily autonomy scenario, after the person refuses to donate anything to help save this other person, which is their right, are they then allowed to hire someone to go to that person's house and kill them? Or more graphically and I will spoiler this so as not to force anyone to read something that might be offensive to them
Spoiler: show
dismember that person, drag their remains out of the house and then throw them in the garbage or sell off their parts for money?


Sorry if this is too blunt for some.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Georgia abortion law
PostPosted: May 22 19, 10:38 am 
Offline
Sucking on the Rally Nipple
User avatar

Joined: April 16 06, 6:03 pm
Posts: 21356
Location: Chicago
wart57 wrote:
I know I said I was out....but.

In the Geddy post - the person who is refusing to give a bone marrow or some such thing is certainly within their rights. No matter the moral issues.

Just a few questions.

Say the person refusing to help is directly responsible for the person having cancer? Say, they were the reason, through negligence, or accident, for that person being exposed to the carcinogen that caused the cancer. I think they can't be forced to give up their body autonomy to help this person, but they can be forced to give up their freedom, financial freedom, and even their future.

Also, in the bodily autonomy scenario, after the person refuses to donate anything to help save this other person, which is their right, are they then allowed to hire someone to go to that person's house and kill them? Or more graphically and I will spoiler this so as not to force anyone to read something that might be offensive to them
Spoiler: show
dismember that person, drag their remains out of the house and then throw them in the garbage or sell off their parts for money?


Sorry if this is too blunt for some.


I agree with you wart that the bone marrow donation analogy has some flaws. Here's where I think the problem lies. A woman is 100% definitely a person, right? This cannot be disputed by reasonable people. The fetus is not 100% definitely a person. That is not settled by science. That is not settled by philosophy. That is not even settled by religion. It is merely the sincere belief of some people, like yourself, which I respect. I can see how that belief is compelling, and once adopted, banning abortion seems logical and a woman's right to choose is beside the point. Hence why the debate and state laws these days has moved towards the "personhood" of the fetus. If that is your belief, none of the other conversations circling this topic have any significance. It doesn't matter if a woman needs to weigh career vs. motherhood -- not her decision because abortion is murder. It doesn't matter if she is raped -- two wrongs don't make a right.

But, not everyone agrees on this. Absent a social consensus that a fetus is a person, informed by science, religion, philosophy, common sense or whatever -- on whose side should the law come down? On the side of the woman and her autonomy, who everyone agrees is a person? Or on the side of the fetus, for whom there is no such universal consensus?

I get the perceived morality of the pro-choice position, but our legal system is not based on what some people feel to be moral.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Georgia abortion law
PostPosted: May 22 19, 10:40 am 
Offline
Consider him admonished
User avatar

Joined: March 25 15, 9:59 am
Posts: 8188
Location: Charleston, SC via Arkansas
G. Keenan wrote:
but our legal system is not based on what some people feel to be moral.

Really?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Georgia abortion law
PostPosted: May 22 19, 10:54 am 
Offline
Hall Of Famer
User avatar

Joined: July 15 08, 8:24 pm
Posts: 19414
Location: Low A Minors
Colorado offered free birth control — and teen abortions fell by 42 percent

Here's yet another angle where the conservative stance on abortion falls apart. Another way to reduce the number of abortions is to increase funding for other kinds of birth control. Not saying the conservatives on this board feel this way, but most conservatives in this country oppose ALL forms of birth control and not just abortion. Birth control funding is one of the first things Republicans slash when they take office. Funding other kinds of birth control is the best of both worlds - fewer abortions and women still keep their right to choose. So, again, conservatives' problem is not really with abortion. Their problem is they don't want women to have this particular freedom.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Georgia abortion law
PostPosted: May 22 19, 10:59 am 
Offline
The Last Word

Joined: June 21 06, 8:45 am
Posts: 19507
pioneer98 wrote:
MAGA wrote:
Yes, and again, just because it isn’t common doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be put forth as a question.

The question stands.


I didn't say it was not common, I said it NEVER happens. The burden of proof is on you to go track down an example where a woman just decided at 8 months she wanted an abortion for the hell of it and there were no complicating factors like risk to her own life involved.



The point is that if you set THAT as the standard, then you have to assume worst-case scenario. You have to have a standard in order to legislate. What is it? Heartbeat? 3 months? 8 months? Birth?

The bone marrow donator isn't wishing or declaring death on anyone. They are simply choosing not to be a donor, and probably hoping that someone else steps in.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Georgia abortion law
PostPosted: May 22 19, 10:59 am 
Offline
just can't quit you.
User avatar

Joined: April 18 06, 4:33 pm
Posts: 23956
Location: Lost
pioneer98 wrote:
Colorado offered free birth control — and teen abortions fell by 42 percent

Here's yet another angle where the conservative stance on abortion falls apart. Another way to reduce the number of abortions is to increase funding for other kinds of birth control. Not saying the conservatives on this board feel this way, but most conservatives in this country oppose ALL forms of birth control and not just abortion. Birth control funding is one of the first things Republicans slash when they take office. Funding other kinds of birth control is the best of both worlds - fewer abortions and women still keep their right to choose. So, again, conservatives' problem is not really with abortion. Their problem is they don't want women to have this particular freedom.


Some conservatives. I think it is asinine to cut funding and curtail access to contraceptives. People want to have sex, it is not some perverse thing meant only for procreation. Preventing conception should be a primary concern of the pro-life folks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Georgia abortion law
PostPosted: May 22 19, 11:20 am 
Offline
The Last Word

Joined: June 21 06, 8:45 am
Posts: 19507
wart57 wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:
Colorado offered free birth control — and teen abortions fell by 42 percent

Here's yet another angle where the conservative stance on abortion falls apart. Another way to reduce the number of abortions is to increase funding for other kinds of birth control. Not saying the conservatives on this board feel this way, but most conservatives in this country oppose ALL forms of birth control and not just abortion. Birth control funding is one of the first things Republicans slash when they take office. Funding other kinds of birth control is the best of both worlds - fewer abortions and women still keep their right to choose. So, again, conservatives' problem is not really with abortion. Their problem is they don't want women to have this particular freedom.


Some conservatives. I think it is asinine to cut funding and curtail access to contraceptives. People want to have sex, it is not some perverse thing meant only for procreation. Preventing conception should be a primary concern of the pro-life folks.


+++


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 199 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group