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PostPosted: May 23 19, 11:27 am 
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Socnorb11 wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:
This is my ask: before you spread something saying it is a fact, make sure it's a fact. I'm not the one guilty of pretending wild opinion is absolutely correct.

I literally gave an example of you doing exactly that, in this thread.


If this is about your statement that scientifically, life begins at conception, I'm not arguing that. I've not argued with that. I've argued that the stage of life at conception is not a real, full, whole human life yet--it will be many months later but isn't at that time, it's just an embryo with a host--and that the value of the adult human host's autonomy and life choices is greater than that of an embryo that couldn't survive on its own. I'm not arguing with the science of life.


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PostPosted: May 23 19, 12:06 pm 
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My humble suggestions:

- We're going to disagree with one another. That's fine. Let's present our arguments for/against a topic, not for/against a person.
- Support positions wherever possible. Reporting, studies, etc. But we'll also be talking opinions at a certain level. It's going to happen.


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PostPosted: May 23 19, 1:21 pm 
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33anda3rd wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:
This is my ask: before you spread something saying it is a fact, make sure it's a fact. I'm not the one guilty of pretending wild opinion is absolutely correct.

I literally gave an example of you doing exactly that, in this thread.


If this is about your statement that scientifically, life begins at conception, I'm not arguing that. I've not argued with that. I've argued that the stage of life at conception is not a real, full, whole human life yet--it will be many months later but isn't at that time.


I'm telling you, that there are scientific studies that undeniably refute this, so stop stating it as fact. It's your opinion. It literally takes less than a minute to Google this.

Again, this is exactly what you're accusing others of being guilty of.


Also, it just occurred to me why your defense of IMA sounded so familiar. It's pretty much the exact approach that Sarah Huckabee Sanders uses to defend Trump's ridiculous inflammatory statements. "That's not what he REALLY means, and anybody who takes it that way is just uninformed".


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PostPosted: May 23 19, 3:30 pm 
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heyzeus wrote:
My humble suggestions:

- We're going to disagree with one another. That's fine. Let's present our arguments for/against a topic, not for/against a person.
- Support positions wherever possible. Reporting, studies, etc. But we'll also be talking opinions at a certain level. It's going to happen.

++


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PostPosted: May 23 19, 6:41 pm 
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Why do I keep getting dragged into this?


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PostPosted: May 23 19, 7:11 pm 
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IMADreamer wrote:
Why do I keep getting dragged into this?

When you are away patrolling the levees....


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PostPosted: May 23 19, 7:37 pm 
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Freed Roger wrote:
IMADreamer wrote:
Why do I keep getting dragged into this?

When you are away patrolling the levees....



Going to be plenty of that this week.


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PostPosted: May 23 19, 9:05 pm 
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Have to ask IMA, did you see Trump press conf with the Farmers. I didn't know you farmers all wore cowboy hats and have Sam Elliott mustaches.


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PostPosted: May 23 19, 10:13 pm 
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33anda3rd wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:
The "truth" is that most women NEVER talk about their abortion, so I'd guess that any studies are going to be skewed.


In light of what I'm asking: this is a thing you believe, which may be true for you because no woman has discussed an abortion with you, but you do not know this to be fact. So you can't say it like it's a fact. Over the course of the last election a lot of people said to wart "Hillary, Trump, heck they're the same thing" and wart started to repeat that lie because he thought it was true. If you tell that belief that is not a fact like it is a fact--women don't talk about their abortions therefore any study is skewed--then you can lead people like wart to believe that too. If FatStrat says that "women regret abortions" which is wrong, then wart might believe that. Now the two of you have wart all misguided thinking that women deeply regret abortion across the board and would never speak about it so any data on the issue is garbage. Now poor wart won't listen to data, he just listens to his friends on GRB who are not mean to him they're good guys and cut from the same jib as he is so probably every good guy like wart thinks that way too. That is dangerous, when rhetoric and belief spreads to overrule the truth. This is literally how we get Trump, Brexit. You say I'm condescending, I kind of am, admittedly. But I'll fight you on all those mis-truths rather than let them slide.

This is my ask: before you spread something saying it is a fact, make sure it's a fact. I'm not the one guilty of pretending wild opinion is absolutely correct.



This is not how we got Trump and Brexit. We got Trump and Brexit because one side was better at politics than the other side. That's all. The people at the heart of the Trump and Brexit movements have no shame (I'm not accusing anyone on this board of being like this...ok maybe there was one guy). We cannot defeat people by shaming them if they have no shame. The Trumpers aren't going to feel bad about getting some fact wrong. In fact, some of them get facts wrong on purpose just to rile up liberals. Literally the only thing that matters is organizing a movement that can beat them. That's it. Then, as we are ramming through our agenda, they will whine about it. At that time we can explain to them that the facts are on our side and they can thank us later.


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PostPosted: May 23 19, 10:35 pm 
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pioneer98 wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:
The "truth" is that most women NEVER talk about their abortion, so I'd guess that any studies are going to be skewed.


In light of what I'm asking: this is a thing you believe, which may be true for you because no woman has discussed an abortion with you, but you do not know this to be fact. So you can't say it like it's a fact. Over the course of the last election a lot of people said to wart "Hillary, Trump, heck they're the same thing" and wart started to repeat that lie because he thought it was true. If you tell that belief that is not a fact like it is a fact--women don't talk about their abortions therefore any study is skewed--then you can lead people like wart to believe that too. If FatStrat says that "women regret abortions" which is wrong, then wart might believe that. Now the two of you have wart all misguided thinking that women deeply regret abortion across the board and would never speak about it so any data on the issue is garbage. Now poor wart won't listen to data, he just listens to his friends on GRB who are not mean to him they're good guys and cut from the same jib as he is so probably every good guy like wart thinks that way too. That is dangerous, when rhetoric and belief spreads to overrule the truth. This is literally how we get Trump, Brexit. You say I'm condescending, I kind of am, admittedly. But I'll fight you on all those mis-truths rather than let them slide.

This is my ask: before you spread something saying it is a fact, make sure it's a fact. I'm not the one guilty of pretending wild opinion is absolutely correct.



This is not how we got Trump and Brexit. We got Trump and Brexit because one side was better at politics than the other side. That's all. The people at the heart of the Trump and Brexit movements have no shame (I'm not accusing anyone on this board of being like this...ok maybe there was one guy). We cannot defeat people by shaming them if they have no shame. The Trumpers aren't going to feel bad about getting some fact wrong. In fact, some of them get facts wrong on purpose just to rile up liberals. Literally the only thing that matters is organizing a movement that can beat them. That's it. Then, as we are ramming through our agenda, they will whine about it. At that time we can explain to them that the facts are on our side and they can thank us later.

I don’t buy that. Trump is better at politics? No.

But you’re right that we can’t shame them or use reasoning. They are lost.


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