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PostPosted: August 20 19, 9:49 pm 
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OK, I'm back on the fence if Harris gets the D nomination.


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PostPosted: August 21 19, 2:25 am 
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Popeye_Card wrote:
I think both sides--left and right--need to educate themselves on the global energy market, and figure out how we are going to be able to meet the energy demands of 8+ billion people across the globe without destroying the planet in the process. The solutions are far, far more complex than curtailing fossil fuel use.

Most of us are failing to live up to what we know full well we should be doing with our lives, but the minimum you can do for your soul, I think, is to at least not lie to yourself about it.


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PostPosted: August 21 19, 4:44 am 
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Arthur Dent wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
I think both sides--left and right--need to educate themselves on the global energy market, and figure out how we are going to be able to meet the energy demands of 8+ billion people across the globe without destroying the planet in the process. The solutions are far, far more complex than curtailing fossil fuel use.

Most of us are failing to live up to what we know full well we should be doing with our lives, but the minimum you can do for your soul, I think, is to at least not lie to yourself about it.


So that I understand what you are trying to say here, do you mean me in particular or all of us?


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PostPosted: August 21 19, 8:48 am 
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This argument feels similar to the gun debate. The problem is so massive that it's easy to feel like anything we do will barely put a dent in it, and so therefore it is futile to even try. Lots of people make that exact argument. Then we get paralyzed and we never take the first step. No plan will be perfect and it's going to be a very long process and there will be setbacks and unforeseen consequences but we have to at least try. If we do nothing, our kids and grandkids have a bleak future.

A lot of the plans we are discussing have a number of benefits besides the environment, too. For example, improving public transportation on a large scale has so many benefits. It makes it cheaper and easier for people to get to work, or get anywhere. It can reduce traffic. Building out that infrastructure will create a massive number of jobs. Oh yeah, and it also reduces our reliance on oil. You could make a similar argument about housing. Right now we have like 6X more empty homes than homeless people. Why do we keep building more homes? With better planning and regulation we could have fewer homeless people, more affordable housing, and oh yeah, less urban sprawl which is awful for the environment. Let's take the first step and see what happens.


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PostPosted: August 21 19, 8:56 am 
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pioneer98 wrote:
This argument feels similar to the gun debate. The problem is so massive that it's easy to feel like anything we do will barely put a dent in it, and so therefore it is futile to even try. Lots of people make that exact argument. Then we get paralyzed and we never take the first step. No plan will be perfect and it's going to be a very long process and there will be setbacks and unforeseen consequences but we have to at least try. If we do nothing, our kids and grandkids have a bleak future.

A lot of the plans we are discussing have a number of benefits besides the environment, too. For example, improving public transportation on a large scale has so many benefits. It makes it cheaper and easier for people to get to work, or get anywhere. It can reduce traffic. Building out that infrastructure will create a massive number of jobs. Oh yeah, and it also reduces our reliance on oil. You could make a similar argument about housing. Right now we have like 6X more empty homes than homeless people. Why do we keep building more homes? With better planning and regulation we could have fewer homeless people, more affordable housing, and oh yeah, less urban sprawl which is awful for the environment. Let's take the first step and see what happens.


I agree. My point was that I believe protests don't equate to doing something.


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PostPosted: August 21 19, 8:59 am 
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Everything this guy touches is toxic. Piss off a good ally in the space of 24 hours. This won't be repaired over night. Jesus Christ it really is just a flagrant grab of resources based on might-makes-right.

How do we get back from here? How is the US ever trusted again?


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PostPosted: August 21 19, 10:38 am 
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Arthur Dent wrote:
Popeye_Card wrote:
I think both sides--left and right--need to educate themselves on the global energy market, and figure out how we are going to be able to meet the energy demands of 8+ billion people across the globe without destroying the planet in the process. The solutions are far, far more complex than curtailing fossil fuel use.

Most of us are failing to live up to what we know full well we should be doing with our lives, but the minimum you can do for your soul, I think, is to at least not lie to yourself about it.


The reality here is that we need an omelette and can't get there without breaking some eggs.

"But our profits!" Tough [expletive], your profits are not more important than the literal future of the planet.
"But our trade/economy!" Tough [expletive], your jobs for the next 30 years are not more important than the literal future of the planet.
"But my religion!" Tough [expletive], that your ego thinks your belief is more important than the scientific reality is irrelevant.

These are all selfish people, but we can't call them selfish. We can't say "the collective selfishness of 50 million Americans needs to take a backseat to the future of the planet, which impacts billions of people." Because that would hurt their feelings and then they'd vote for another Trump. They probably don't all lie to themselves (well, the religious do) so much as they just can't overcome their own selfish self-interests.


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PostPosted: August 21 19, 11:05 am 
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Nice CYA tweet by the ambassador.


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PostPosted: August 21 19, 12:35 pm 
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Radbird wrote:

Nice CYA tweet by the ambassador.

But what she meant was "Little countries should bend over and take what we give them. Or else!" Because that is really what this fascist regime is telling Denmark.

And now he calls the Danish PM 'nasty' for the temerity of being offended by his his attempt to intimidate. What a piece of work.


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PostPosted: August 21 19, 12:40 pm 
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Radbird wrote:

Nice CYA tweet by the ambassador.

I wouldn't expect her to go to Trump's level, but tweet seems kind of cowardly. Public silence would have been better.

If the implication is she looks forward to meeting future presidents that are actual non-fascists and grown-ups...- but I don't see it.


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