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 Post subject: Re: Flint, Michigan:
PostPosted: January 29 16, 12:43 pm 
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heyzeus wrote:
It is possible that Flint is now Michigan's Times Beach - uninhabitable, but nearly impossible to remediate. What they've done there is astonishing in its incompetence.


I was wondering that myself.

Times Beach is kind of interesting and a bygone era. Not saying it shouldn't have been evacuated. Relatively - I believe Bliss spread the same toxins in other places where nothing was done. Ellisville for one -where my wife and in-laws lived. My mother in-law noted a cancer cluster relative to that area - though housing in the expanding burbs was so itinerant in that era that it's hard to peg it to the place.

Flint sounds far worse from the little I know. Times Beach (now Route 66 State Park) floods every so often -those toxins have moved along - which is the logic I took when I ran out there last Summer.


Last edited by Freed Roger on January 29 16, 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Flint, Michigan:
PostPosted: January 29 16, 12:46 pm 
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Freed Roger wrote:
UK wrote:

I agree with the premise that the goal was to weaken the DWS as it has already been split in two, the goal was to strangle it to non-survival and create a privatized water company.


How in the [expletive] is a privatized water company going to make money off a left-for-dead-by-industry place like Flint -or even Detroit for that matter?

All privatizing would amount to is govt subsidizing a private water company, instead of a public one - for when it goes to Flint. Even less accountability. and the government has washed it's hands of failures -because failures in privatization are looked at as the successes/the system at work.


I have no idea how they would profit from it but I would imagine like you said, massive kickbacks to the company and massive tax breaks. Allowing less pensions, non-union, and less worker friendly work environments compared to Government run agencies.


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 Post subject: Re: Flint, Michigan:
PostPosted: January 29 16, 12:48 pm 
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UK wrote:
Freed Roger wrote:
UK wrote:

I agree with the premise that the goal was to weaken the DWS as it has already been split in two, the goal was to strangle it to non-survival and create a privatized water company.


How in the [expletive] is a privatized water company going to make money off a left-for-dead-by-industry place like Flint -or even Detroit for that matter?

All privatizing would amount to is govt subsidizing a private water company, instead of a public one - for when it goes to Flint. Even less accountability. and the government has washed it's hands of failures -because failures in privatization are looked at as the successes/the system at work.


I have no idea how they would profit from it but I would imagine like you said, massive kickbacks to the company and massive tax breaks. Allowing less pensions, non-union, and less worker friendly work environments compared to Government run agencies.

like public ed. undermine it, then privatize it.


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 Post subject: Re: Flint, Michigan:
PostPosted: January 29 16, 12:51 pm 
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Freed Roger wrote:
UK wrote:
Freed Roger wrote:
UK wrote:

I agree with the premise that the goal was to weaken the DWS as it has already been split in two, the goal was to strangle it to non-survival and create a privatized water company.


How in the [expletive] is a privatized water company going to make money off a left-for-dead-by-industry place like Flint -or even Detroit for that matter?

All privatizing would amount to is govt subsidizing a private water company, instead of a public one - for when it goes to Flint. Even less accountability. and the government has washed it's hands of failures -because failures in privatization are looked at as the successes/the system at work.


I have no idea how they would profit from it but I would imagine like you said, massive kickbacks to the company and massive tax breaks. Allowing less pensions, non-union, and less worker friendly work environments compared to Government run agencies.

like public ed. undermine it, then privatize it.


Exactly, it's the GOP model. Sugarcoat by offering frozen or slightly reduced property taxes, cut state programs/employee rights, counter those savings with tax cuts for the wealthy and business and blame budget deficits on Obama's economy for being sluggish


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 Post subject: Re: Flint, Michigan:
PostPosted: January 29 16, 1:00 pm 
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Freed Roger wrote:
heyzeus wrote:
It is possible that Flint is now Michigan's Times Beach - uninhabitable, but nearly impossible to remediate. What they've done there is astonishing in its incompetence.


I was wondering that myself.

Times Beach is kind of interesting and a bygone era. Not saying it shouldn't have been evacuated. Relatively - I believe Bliss spread the same toxins in other places where nothing was done. Ellisville for one -where my wife and in-laws lived. My mother in-law noted a cancer cluster relative to that area - though housing in the expanding burbs was so itinerant in that era that it's hard to peg it to the place.

Flint sounds far worse from the little I know. Times Beach (now Route 66 State Park) floods every so often -those toxins have moved along - which is the logic I took when I ran out there last Summer.


More story relative to above on potential other sites with same toxins as Times Beach

probably beyond the scope here - but FWIW - it sounds like superfunds and mandated buyouts of dangerous places to live are over with. In St. Louis area alone, we have several known toxic areas (North Burbs- Coldwater Creek and that waste dump burning toward radioactive materials...ugh) that aren't getting the big treatment. Businesses that create the mess disappear. Govt was involved too. but Govt is broke, and can't afford to do things right domestically anymore


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 Post subject: Re: Flint, Michigan:
PostPosted: January 29 16, 1:08 pm 
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Freed Roger wrote:
Freed Roger wrote:
heyzeus wrote:
It is possible that Flint is now Michigan's Times Beach - uninhabitable, but nearly impossible to remediate. What they've done there is astonishing in its incompetence.


I was wondering that myself.

Times Beach is kind of interesting and a bygone era. Not saying it shouldn't have been evacuated. Relatively - I believe Bliss spread the same toxins in other places where nothing was done. Ellisville for one -where my wife and in-laws lived. My mother in-law noted a cancer cluster relative to that area - though housing in the expanding burbs was so itinerant in that era that it's hard to peg it to the place.

Flint sounds far worse from the little I know. Times Beach (now Route 66 State Park) floods every so often -those toxins have moved along - which is the logic I took when I ran out there last Summer.


More story relative to above on potential other sites with same toxins as Times Beach

probably beyond the scope here - but FWIW - it sounds like superfunds and mandated buyouts of dangerous places to live are over with. In St. Louis area alone, we have several known toxic areas (North Burbs- Coldwater Creek and that waste dump burning toward radioactive materials...ugh) that aren't getting the big treatment. Businesses that create the mess disappear. Govt was involved too. but Govt is broke, and can't afford to do things right domestically anymore


I've been involved in a few Superfund cases. The federal funding to remediate the sites was slashed decades ago. Now, the federal and state environmental agencies tasked with enforcing CERCLA have to spend years figuring out whether any companies that ever operated the site, or contributed waste to it, are still in business and have assets. The lawsuits take years, and it's like a game of musical chairs piecing together the chain of liability from the site that was dumped on back in the 50s to a successor corporation that is solvent today. If the fed and state governments made it a priority to fund the cleanup, more of them would be done. But it isn't, so they aren't.


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 Post subject: Re: Flint, Michigan:
PostPosted: January 29 16, 1:47 pm 
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heyzeus wrote:
It is possible that Flint is now Michigan's Times Beach - uninhabitable, but nearly impossible to remediate. What they've done there is astonishing in its incompetence.

Obligatory, but not quite sure what he means here. Farrar with some of his best depressing work with the local environmental problem ref.


And related obligatory:


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 Post subject: Re: Flint, Michigan:
PostPosted: January 29 16, 2:54 pm 
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we all wanted to know former nba and possibly crazy gilbert arenas' opinions on this right?


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 Post subject: Re: Flint, Michigan:
PostPosted: January 29 16, 4:13 pm 
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Quote:
In the fall of 2014, the local GM plant stopped using Flint water because it was corroding their auto parts.


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/in-flint-public-trust-poisoned-by-toxic-drinking-water-crisis-2/
http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2014/10/general_motors_wont_use_flint.html

2014 -rusting auto due to the chloride level put in Flint water to try to kill off the e coli problem w/ the water.


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 Post subject: Re: Flint, Michigan:
PostPosted: January 29 16, 5:36 pm 
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Joined: April 25 06, 6:43 pm
Posts: 11472
Location: Austin
Freed Roger wrote:
It's a convoluted tale, but the key event was that the autocrat Snyder put in charge of a broke Flint shut off safer water from Detroit as a cost-saver.

Was part of the reason for this to starve Detroit of revenue?


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