Tesla Motors

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MrSaigon

Re: Tesla Motors

Post by MrSaigon »

The Leaf is like a corded lawnmower. At 200+, that's something you can work with. But still very limited as you guys say. As soon as the range and fueling convenience arrive I think electric cars will be a realistic choice.

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go birds
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Re: Tesla Motors

Post by go birds »

I'd probably be inclined to buy one of these things depending on how long they are built to last.

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cardinalkarp
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Re: Tesla Motors

Post by cardinalkarp »

IMADreamer wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:
IMADreamer wrote:Here's my take on Tesla which I'm sure you guys are all dying to hear. Tesla makes an ok car, but you are basically paying a luxury for the electric car part of it. Take this car for example, if you look at the stats it's a Ford Focus. So you have a 20k dollar car selling for 35k. That the P85 or whatever they call it . This is Mercedes E class, BMW 5 series, and Audi S5 territory in price, but it's not that level of car. Again you are paying for the electric motor while you get stiffed on things like interior quality and features. Not to mention the limited range.

This new Tesla 3 is supposed to do 200 miles. This means if I'm heading to Chicago I'll need to fill up with electricity somewhere around Joliet and no one wants to stop at Joliet for the day. Even trips to St. Louis are iffy because that's about 150 miles round trip. Maybe we do a little shopping hit up some different malls, or restaurants, then head down to the game. Do I really want to be at Bowling Green and going "jesus I hope I can make it the next 30 miles home." Again because if you run out, you are screwed. This isn't a 5 minute fill up, not that you can just fill up with electricity anywhere anyway.

The main problem of this all is that while it sounds good. Hey I'm not using gas, you are just using coal or natural gas to make that electricity.

I'm just not sold on it yet. Clearly 120k pre orders says some people are, but I'll stick with gas for now.
Like I said they are putting "supercharging" stations around the country. There are 8 already in Illinois. There's one in Aurora, Normal, Springfield, etc.

https://www.teslamotors.com/findus/list ... ted+States

That's fine, but like I said who wants to drive to Chicago and have to make a stop over on the way. Ok it's only 30 minutes, but that's 30 minutes as opposed to five to fill up a car. That's if the model 3 gets it's advertised range, which it won't. The P85 doesn't. If you drive faster than 65 it goes down faster, hills drains faster, etc.

I still think this is a toy. It's not a real solution to anything. Especially when the big manufactures already have hybrids that are far superior in every way.

Btw no engine doesn't mean this doesn't break down. Electrical components fail too. Ok so theirs a dealer in St. Louis, that doesn't help people outside of their. Tesla remains a toy for the wealthy until they actually get a deal network nation wide and they increase their range so that the car is more practical. At 35k this will be a lot of people's only car. It has to be able to do road trips.

The biggest problem still stands in that this isn't a good value at all. It's priced 15k more than the nearest competitor in it's class.
I typically agree w/ you when it comes to cars, but not on this one.

Whether or not you want to believe it the Tesla is superior to a Volt/Leaf or any other electric car out there right now (except maybe the BMW i8...but even that might be hybrid, it's slipping my mind right now...but even that's 100k + car); it out performs the other electric vehicles, it's more luxurious than the other electric vehicles, and for the people interested in the Model 3, it's just a much cooler all around car.

Yes, Tesla is a new company and is still in the process of broadening its network of dealerships and charging stations across the country....and for people who are interested in driving a no emissions vehicle that is at the forefront of the technology they have to take that in mind (and I think most do). I have to admit, I'm intrigued by the Model 3. The Model S and X are both out of my price range (though I've driven a 90D, not the performance P90D and it was still a wonderful car), but the Model 3 is right at the top of the range I would pay for a vehicle (and after tax breaks even a nicely optioned car will be in the 40k range).

Are there going to be some inconveniences when it comes to an electric vehicle, you bet; most are going to be the range of the vehicle as you already stated. At this point, these are not "road trip cars" and I would venture to guess that most of the people buying these have a second car or a spouse that does (that it isn't fully electric). At some point the network of charging stations might allow them to be a road trip car, but I think Tesla is still years from that...but even at that point having to locate a charging station every 200/250 or so miles and wait for a 1/2 hour to an hour for it to recharge IS a pain and isn't for everyone (and I likely wouldn't take this thing on long road trips). Will repairs be a pain, maybe...maybe not. There will surely be less of them, although the one's that pop up will be of the electronic of sorts which can be expensive when the car is out of warranty (but I believe Tesla's have a 100k mile warranty on them).

Are the cars for everyone, no.....just like any other car out there. But for a person who wants to help the environment, drive a pretty damn nice fully electric car that performs well, and is affordable to some extent....the Model 3 is a much better option than driving around a Chevy Volt or Nissan Leaf.

edit: With that being said, I wasn't about to put even 1k down for the first run of these cars. I want to see them up close and drive one before I ever plunk down any money. With the first run not even coming until next year, IF I was to purchase one it would likely be a 2018/19 model and by that point hopefully Tesla is still doing well, their network has expanded, and we all have a better idea of the reliability of their cars.
Last edited by cardinalkarp on April 1 16, 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

MrSaigon

Re: Tesla Motors

Post by MrSaigon »

How is the Model S aging so far?

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thrill
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Re: Tesla Motors

Post by thrill »

I think it's very silly to complain about maintenance and charging stations not being available in non-major metro areas and that being the reason this won't work.

When you're releasing a totally new product that has never been sold before, you sell it where the people live and invest in infrastructure where those people are going to be using it. Then you expand outward. It's just a numbers game and there's really no other way to do it.

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pioneer98
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Re: Tesla Motors

Post by pioneer98 »

MrSaigon wrote:How is the Model S aging so far?
I read in an article that the reliability isn't that great, and that is part of the reason they are offering long warranties.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tes ... rformance/

It isn't unusual for a car company to offer longer warranties when they are first starting out. When Kia and Hyundai first came out, they offered long warranties. Then as the designs mature and they address their problems in a cost effective way, they can shorten the warranty length. But Tesla is not positioning itself as a cheap up and coming brand like Kia or Hyundai, they are positioning themselves as a premium brand. I'd say reliability is a risk.

Devil's advocate: you could argue that this is a problem in the overall car market, but maybe not as big a problem among people who are totally sold on the electric car idea. Those people will be comparing the reliability of a Tesla against other electric cars, or maybe hybrids.

I'm not planning to buy one right away. I can't afford it anyway, and I'm not an early adopter. I will wait a few years until they have the bugs worked out, and then wait another couple years until I can buy a used one for cheaper than a new one. Unless they come way down in price faster than expected.

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Re: Tesla Motors

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

thrill wrote:I think it's very silly to complain about maintenance and charging stations not being available in non-major metro areas and that being the reason this won't work.

When you're releasing a totally new product that has never been sold before, you sell it where the people live and invest in infrastructure where those people are going to be using it. Then you expand outward. It's just a numbers game and there's really no other way to do it.
Is it? Obviously the strategy to sell heavily on the coasts makes sense. My only point is that they're failing at that as a business. Obviously new models are leading to new sales. That's nice. But, they're far from profitable. And, their economies of scale are limited by the infrastructure that new markets will demand. Further, as their success grows, so will competition. Tesla is a novelty. I wish them well, but they're almost certainly destined to fail.

MrSaigon

Re: Tesla Motors

Post by MrSaigon »

154k pre-orders in a day for a car that will be released in two years or so isn't bad. But this isn't a normal business anyway. Musk releases all the Tesla patents (though certainly there could be some strategy there). Anyway, I don't think you could say they're failing. Not yet. Possibly never even if you don't see a Tesla anywhere in 10 years depending on Musk's true goals.

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Re: Tesla Motors

Post by Socnorb11 »

thrill wrote:I think it's very silly to complain about maintenance and charging stations not being available in non-major metro areas and that being the reason this won't work.

When you're releasing a totally new product that has never been sold before, you sell it where the people live and invest in infrastructure where those people are going to be using it. Then you expand outward. It's just a numbers game and there's really no other way to do it.
Agree completely.

My beef is that we all want to mock the Republicans for refusing to believe that global warming is an actual thing that we can help with, and then dismiss efforts of those who do try to make a difference. I guess we all want to address global warming, as long as it doesn't impact us directly........... like having to wait 30 minutes *gasp!* to re-charge our automobile.

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Re: Tesla Motors

Post by IMADreamer »

Socnorb11 wrote:
thrill wrote:I think it's very silly to complain about maintenance and charging stations not being available in non-major metro areas and that being the reason this won't work.

When you're releasing a totally new product that has never been sold before, you sell it where the people live and invest in infrastructure where those people are going to be using it. Then you expand outward. It's just a numbers game and there's really no other way to do it.
Agree completely.

My beef is that we all want to mock the Republicans for refusing to believe that global warming is an actual thing that we can help with, and then dismiss efforts of those who do try to make a difference. I guess we all want to address global warming, as long as it doesn't impact us directly........... like having to wait 30 minutes *gasp!* to re-charge our automobile.

Well if this was actually fighting global warming we might be able to make that argument but the reality is if you live in the midwest, or most of America really your power comes from fossil fuels. This car just trades gas for coal or natural gas.

If we are going to pretend we are serious about global warming we need to get serious about alternative electricity sources. Something like 35% of our electricity comes from coal, another 30 or so from natural gas. Renewables make up I think around 7%, let's call it 10% just for fun.

Like the Tesla because you like the car, or you like electricity but let's not kid ourselves it's made of plastic, rubber, lithium, and runs ons coal it's not in any way environmentally friendly.

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