Baseball Talk has gotten intimidating.

cabby7588 · Post by **cabby7588** » June 11 07, 12:08 am

Cool. I'm still not sure what a PECOTA rating is. I look forward to it.

Post by **TheoSqua** » June 11 07, 7:08 am

here's one that I protest to:

The thread about Shannon mispronouncing Chone Figgin's name. Why is that not baseball talk? It's discussing a baseball announcer and a player the cardinals are playing at the time. I think these are the sorts of threads that Leroy is talking about, and why baseball talk is too "serious".

You can't have a light-hearted post in baseball talk because it isn't "baseball" enough. It really makes the baseball thread sort of solumn. The only posts there are about people discussing their opinions, and when the cardinals are under .500 like they are now, those comments are generally negative.

I still enjoy reading the baseball forum, and I consider myself a huge stat geek, but I generally check social first just because I don't consider threads consisting just of statistical baseball talk with the same people argueing their opinions on every single thread nearly as entertaining as the threads we had last year. If you want i'll try to go back and compare some of the dicussions we had last season with the ones we've had this season to see if it's just me losing my mind of it there really is a significant change in the way the board is being moderated.

I just don't see something as simple as a shannonism thread being wrong for that forum and, for me, is the epitomy of what plagues baseball talk.

Leroy · Post by **Leroy** » June 11 07, 7:20 am

TheoSqua wrote:here's one that I protest to:

The thread about Shannon mispronouncing Chone Figgin's name. Why is that not baseball talk? It's discussing a baseball announcer and a player the cardinals are playing at the time. I think these are the sorts of threads that Leroy is talking about, and why baseball talk is too "serious".

That is exactly correct.

Dillagii · Post by **Dillagii** » June 11 07, 7:23 am

Tambourine Man wrote:
JohnnyJay wrote:
G. Keenan wrote:
JohnnyJay wrote:I offered a suggestion. Hopefully it's considered. I joined here for the sole purpose to discuss Cardinal baseball. The other forums on this board I frequent, is quite frankly due to the fact that this is the only message board I post. Does anyone agree with me? Would anyone like to see a thread dedicated to learning about advanced stats?
Do you mean like some kind of glossary? I think it's a good idea.
Exactly. Something for "beginners" to reference. I think it would expand discussions even further.
It's in the works. I guarantee you that.

Here is a good start

Post by **TheoSqua** » June 11 07, 8:29 am

Elphie15 · Post by **Elphie15** » June 11 07, 9:19 am

Leroy wrote:
TheoSqua wrote:here's one that I protest to:

The thread about Shannon mispronouncing Chone Figgin's name. Why is that not baseball talk? It's discussing a baseball announcer and a player the cardinals are playing at the time. I think these are the sorts of threads that Leroy is talking about, and why baseball talk is too "serious".
That is exactly correct.

++

Theo said it perfectly.

clevername · Post by **clevername** » June 11 07, 9:21 am

Elphie15 wrote:
Leroy wrote:
TheoSqua wrote:here's one that I protest to:

The thread about Shannon mispronouncing Chone Figgin's name. Why is that not baseball talk? It's discussing a baseball announcer and a player the cardinals are playing at the time. I think these are the sorts of threads that Leroy is talking about, and why baseball talk is too "serious".
That is exactly correct.
++

I agree with this sentiment, as well.

TGantz · Post by **TGantz** » June 11 07, 10:01 am

I think we should try to do JJ's idea. A glossary, or at least a reference thread for links to SABRmetric information. I'm willing to learn them, but I don't know where to learn them.

TGantz · Post by **TGantz** » June 11 07, 10:20 am

http://baseballprospectus.com/glossary/ ... egory=true

haltz · Post by **haltz** » June 11 07, 12:16 pm

What we do have too many posts in those threads either making fun of the poster, or of the methodology.

Honestly, making jokes (that really don't even have a punchline) about something you don't understand at all is a natural reaction, but it makes people look a whole lot worse than if they really "didn't care" about something. Off-hand dismissal also makes my blood boil. If you don't care, then don't care and don't comment, but the not-so-veiled potshots every time someone uses an unfamiliar acronym have gotten really old.

I would say that if it's a thread that involves player comparison or valuation then best stats win. Batting average and FP% aren't going to get the job done, because those are a [expletive] way to evaluate a player. If you don't care enough to figure out a better way to say "player A is better than player B" then you are going to be wrong a lot of the time -- and either way, wrong about how you got there.

I'm certain that there could be more threads about non-statistic baseball stuff though. If people don't care about that stuff then make topics about what you do care about. Personally, I wouldn't have any problem with a the Chone/Shannon thread in BT, but it's not my board, I just feel privileged to be able to post here after some of the other places I've been.

Anyway, just ask. Even if you are embarrassed at times (there's no need to be, but I definitely feel that way sometimes) then there's always Google.

There's nothing more that I hate than someone pissing on something they haven't taken one second to understand. But, there's nothing more that I like than someone being open-minded enough to ask a question and learn something new and foreign. That's just me though.

I started posting on Cardinals boards last fall, realized I didn't know jack about how people evaluated baseball players and teams these days (even though I felt like I knew a lot about baseball since I played competitively until I got injured and followed the Cardinals and MLB pretty religiously), listened to some of posters that I figured had a clue when they corrected me, and I think I've gained a passing knowledge of the sabermetric stuff since then. By no means do I know a fraction of what some others know, but it's not important enough to me to make it my life, I haven't really paid attention all that long, and I'm not especially smart.

Anyway, that's a viewpoint from someone that does really enjoy the analysis if that's been underrepresented in this thread.

As far as free education goes, and places you hear these things being bandied about, since Timmy expressed the sentiment (well, BP isn't free). I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg on the web.

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/
http://baseballprospectus.com/
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main
http://www.tangotiger.net/
http://www.baseball-reference.com/
http://stl.sabr.org/fungoes/
http://www.fangraphs.com/index.aspx
http://vivaelbirdos.com/
http://beyondtheboxscore.com/
http://danagonistes.blogspot.com/
http://baseballmusings.com/
http://baseballanalysts.com/
http://walksaber.blogspot.com/
http://www.sabernomics.com/
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/

There are plenty of glossaries and articles in those sites explaining the usefulness and definitions of certain stats, etc. Here are a couple of pieces talking about pitchers and defense from USS Mariner:

Evaluating Pitcher Talent. Or, “Why ERA and WHIP don’t cut it these days.”
Evaluating Defense