rant: fine dining

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themiddle54
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Re: rant: fine dining

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middle, are the crafty beers a lower % markup in general than your PBR etc options?
Very much so. There are two extremes.
A can of PBR costs 50c and is $3.50, 7X markup.
A bottle of 2016 Goose Island Madame Rose costs $17.05 and is $35, barely a 2X markup.
Between those two extremes is an almost perfect line, if cost is one axis and markup is the other, connecting them.

Sometimes scarcity plays a role. My draft handles all (except for our house beer that I brewed in collaboration with a local brewery) rotate--when the keg empties, the line becomes a different beer. When we put stuff like FFF Zombie Dust or Goose BCS or Abraxas or something that gets beer nerds salivating I mark that [expletive] up like crazy. Like 7, 8, 10 times. Because those guys will happily pay it. It's even part of the game, y'know? Come in, drink a BCS in June, pay $9 for 5oz of it, then check that [expletive] in on Untappd so the other beer nerds know you are totally cool.

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themiddle54
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Re: rant: fine dining

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AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:Ha. I never said anything about acting like a jagoff or giving servers [expletive] for beer being expensive or not liking a place because it bans children (which I fully support fwiw).

Still my point remains, some people think beer is beer and will pick a $3.50 beer instead of a $7 beer because, to them, beer is beer and $3.50<$7. You seem to acknowledge this as well saying it's sales-driven not cost-driven.
of course I acknowledge it, AW, because I'm not arguing with you or disagreeing. We're talking about two different people. You're talking about the guy who innocently wants the cheapest thing, and I'm talking about the guy who wants to pick a fight with his server over value on the menu when he has no idea what the value of the items on the menu is.

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Re: rant: fine dining

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themiddle54 wrote: our house beer that I brewed in collaboration with a local brewery
How goes it? does it sell well?
Last edited by Freed Roger on March 7 17, 4:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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themiddle54
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Re: rant: fine dining

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Freed Roger wrote:
themiddle54 wrote: our house beer that I brewed in collaboration with a local brewery
How goes it? does it sell well?
It sells very well. It's the scarcity thing. Since you can only get it here...

I mean, also, it's very good, I gave some to one of the handful of master cicerones in the world when we released it in November and he said it was the best thing he'd tasted in a long time. /brag

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Re: rant: fine dining

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http://www.chicagomag.com/dining-drinki ... leaf-kids/

This guy's rant is complete crap. I'm someone who's taken my young kid to many a drinking establishment -just use common sense on it. Sounds like that bar is small - they don't have room in the place or on the menu for accommodating kids.

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Re: rant: fine dining

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themiddle54 wrote:
Freed Roger wrote:
themiddle54 wrote: our house beer that I brewed in collaboration with a local brewery
How goes it? does it sell well?
It sells very well. It's the scarcity thing. Since you can only get it here...

I mean, also, it's very good, I gave some to one of the handful of master cicerones in the world when we released it in November and he said it was the best thing he'd tasted in a long time. /brag
That's awesome to hear!

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themiddle54
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Re: rant: fine dining

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Freed Roger wrote:http://www.chicagomag.com/dining-drinki ... leaf-kids/

This guy's rant is complete crap. I'm someone who's taken my young kid to many a drinking establishment -just use common sense on it. Sounds like that bar is small - they don't have room in the place or on the menu for accommodating kids.
That's the link buried last page in my rant. Hopleaf has a big back room, lots of tables, good space. The space thing is not about the kids. The owner of Hopleaf gave a very good explanation on Facebook for why he has that policy. Let me see if I can find it.....here we go...with a spoiler for length.
[SHOW]
I have to weigh in of course since Hopleaf is my bar and the policy is mine. Hopleaf has always been a bar. It is our name; The Hopleaf Bar. Not Cafe Hopleaf or the Hopleaf Restaurant. Our mission is not to run a restaurant that also serves beer, wine and spirits. Our concept from day one has been to serve adult beverages to adults in the company of other adults. Yes, we serve food. Our food is often marinaded in beer, steamed and braised in beer and meant to be accompanied with beer, wine or cider. There are plenty of family friendly places that serve alcohol along with food. We encourage drinking eating and conversation. Often the conversation is freewheeling. I remember working in a family friendly place years ago where a group in one booth were chastised by a party with children in the next booth for their language. It stifled the adult party's conversation. We don't have high chairs, TV's, or a kid friendly menu.

Places that are family friendly design their places around that. Wider aisles, places to put strollers, and safety features. Our open mezzanines, stairways, basement restrooms, and unprotected wood stove would have to be changed or closed in. Why would we do that when serving children was never in our business plan?

We have always had some who have complained about the policy. However, they have been vastly outnumbered by those who support it, including many parents. Many parents who've hired a baby sitter for a date night out appreciate that they will be in an adult venue without crying infants, temper tantrums or kids running in the aisles. Some kids behave, some don't. We don't want to be in the position of sorting them out.

Then there is the issue of what kids to let in. Infants but not toddlers, teens but not babies, or over 12, or 16 or 18. Whatever we chose, there will be even more controversy. And since tavern licenses are subject to more scrutiny and sting operations than "incidental" licenses, the last thing we want is teens to 20 year old's who will try their best to have a drink, often with parents blessing. OK at home, not in a licensed bar or restaurant. Our license is at stake. With 7 different service areas, it is impossible to monitor everyplace to ensure that someone's 19 year old isn't sharing mom's wine.

I have also worked at places that stipulated no minors after 5 or 6 PM. Every night we'd have a problem with people not done eating or who arrives at 15 minutes before or people who saw someone else's kids at a table finishing up and wondered why their kids were not welcome. It is a can of worms.
One thing that I noted about places that allow kids is that not only do the tables with kids not drink much, the tables around them drank less too. It throws off the adult drinking atmosphere. Kid's tables wind up with more food on the floor, broken glasses and more cleanup time. Kids tables have lower check averages. We are a business. We want the real estate of our tables and chairs to be filled with people who drink. Beer, wine and spirit sales subsidize our kitchen. Since we spend more for our foodstuffs because we offer sustainable agriculture products, often organic, pasture raised, and local, we need to sell beer, wine and spirits where the profit is. Kid friendly places often sell pizza, pasta, burgers, or non house made foods that are more profitable.

Bottom line: We believe there should be some places that are for adults to be in the company of adults. Adult beverages, food and conversation. Adult atmosphere. Our tavern license allows us to be an adult venue. Most licensed establishments had an "incidental" license that in theory means that selling alcohol is secondary to their main purpose, be it selling food, being a bowling alley, music venue, theater or baseball stadium. We are a bar. One does not bring babies to the opera or the symphony. There are movies and plays that are inappropriate for minors. And bars and cocktail lounges are not for kids.
One last note: We don't hate kids. If you know about us, you know that we have donated a ton of money over the years to the local public elementary school that we "adopted" over ten years ago. Last year alone, we raised over $50,000 for Peirce School for programs for our local kids. Many of our customers send their kids to Peirce and they appreciate our "Kegs for Kid's" program. 100% of the revenue from one keg of beer on our menu every day goes to the school. We love kids. We can't wait for them to grow up and have a beer.........after they turn 21.

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Re: rant: fine dining

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themiddle54 wrote:
Freed Roger wrote:http://www.chicagomag.com/dining-drinki ... leaf-kids/

This guy's rant is complete crap. I'm someone who's taken my young kid to many a drinking establishment -just use common sense on it. Sounds like that bar is small - they don't have room in the place or on the menu for accommodating kids.
That's the link buried last page in my rant. Hopleaf has a big back room, lots of tables, good space. The space thing is not about the kids. The owner of Hopleaf gave a very good explanation on Facebook for why he has that policy. Let me see if I can find it.....here we go...with a spoiler for length.
[SHOW]
I have to weigh in of course since Hopleaf is my bar and the policy is mine. Hopleaf has always been a bar. It is our name; The Hopleaf Bar. Not Cafe Hopleaf or the Hopleaf Restaurant. Our mission is not to run a restaurant that also serves beer, wine and spirits. Our concept from day one has been to serve adult beverages to adults in the company of other adults. Yes, we serve food. Our food is often marinaded in beer, steamed and braised in beer and meant to be accompanied with beer, wine or cider. There are plenty of family friendly places that serve alcohol along with food. We encourage drinking eating and conversation. Often the conversation is freewheeling. I remember working in a family friendly place years ago where a group in one booth were chastised by a party with children in the next booth for their language. It stifled the adult party's conversation. We don't have high chairs, TV's, or a kid friendly menu.

Places that are family friendly design their places around that. Wider aisles, places to put strollers, and safety features. Our open mezzanines, stairways, basement restrooms, and unprotected wood stove would have to be changed or closed in. Why would we do that when serving children was never in our business plan?

We have always had some who have complained about the policy. However, they have been vastly outnumbered by those who support it, including many parents. Many parents who've hired a baby sitter for a date night out appreciate that they will be in an adult venue without crying infants, temper tantrums or kids running in the aisles. Some kids behave, some don't. We don't want to be in the position of sorting them out.

Then there is the issue of what kids to let in. Infants but not toddlers, teens but not babies, or over 12, or 16 or 18. Whatever we chose, there will be even more controversy. And since tavern licenses are subject to more scrutiny and sting operations than "incidental" licenses, the last thing we want is teens to 20 year old's who will try their best to have a drink, often with parents blessing. OK at home, not in a licensed bar or restaurant. Our license is at stake. With 7 different service areas, it is impossible to monitor everyplace to ensure that someone's 19 year old isn't sharing mom's wine.

I have also worked at places that stipulated no minors after 5 or 6 PM. Every night we'd have a problem with people not done eating or who arrives at 15 minutes before or people who saw someone else's kids at a table finishing up and wondered why their kids were not welcome. It is a can of worms.
One thing that I noted about places that allow kids is that not only do the tables with kids not drink much, the tables around them drank less too. It throws off the adult drinking atmosphere. Kid's tables wind up with more food on the floor, broken glasses and more cleanup time. Kids tables have lower check averages. We are a business. We want the real estate of our tables and chairs to be filled with people who drink. Beer, wine and spirit sales subsidize our kitchen. Since we spend more for our foodstuffs because we offer sustainable agriculture products, often organic, pasture raised, and local, we need to sell beer, wine and spirits where the profit is. Kid friendly places often sell pizza, pasta, burgers, or non house made foods that are more profitable.

Bottom line: We believe there should be some places that are for adults to be in the company of adults. Adult beverages, food and conversation. Adult atmosphere. Our tavern license allows us to be an adult venue. Most licensed establishments had an "incidental" license that in theory means that selling alcohol is secondary to their main purpose, be it selling food, being a bowling alley, music venue, theater or baseball stadium. We are a bar. One does not bring babies to the opera or the symphony. There are movies and plays that are inappropriate for minors. And bars and cocktail lounges are not for kids.
One last note: We don't hate kids. If you know about us, you know that we have donated a ton of money over the years to the local public elementary school that we "adopted" over ten years ago. Last year alone, we raised over $50,000 for Peirce School for programs for our local kids. Many of our customers send their kids to Peirce and they appreciate our "Kegs for Kid's" program. 100% of the revenue from one keg of beer on our menu every day goes to the school. We love kids. We can't wait for them to grow up and have a beer.........after they turn 21.
explanation makes complete sense.
Plenty of places to go still to get a pint with your kid and everybody stays happy.

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Re: rant: fine dining

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tlombard wrote:I have lived three blocks from Three Flags since the place was Harry's years ago and STILL haven't been in there. I'll probably never get over the fact that my neighborhood bar closed and irrationally dislike Three Flags Tavern just because of what used to be there before them. I liked their cheap, good burgers at Harry's and having a cheap and friendly place so close to grab a beer on my way home from work if I wanted. You couldn't beat the $6 steak sandwich on Mondays or the $3 half pound burger another day or the $4 half pound burger with three cheeses on Thursdays. Or one night was a $3 grilled chicken sandwich. I didn't even buy pots and pans for the apartment until Harry's closed because it was easier to just eat there!
Well Lombard,3 Flags has closed.
that road closure IS a pain in the arse. That part of town isn't the easiest place to navigate anyway.

I'm guessing Cha Cha Chow and that tavern next door aren't doing too well either.

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themiddle54
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Re: rant: fine dining

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Freed Roger wrote:Plenty of places to go still to get a pint with your kid and everybody stays happy.
???????

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