rant: fine dining

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Diddy
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Re: rant: fine dining

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Swirls wrote:
Diddy wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:Food and Wine just published a list of the 40 most important American restaurants of the last 40 years. Commanders Palace was #1. If invited were invited for a meal there, I'd go.
We’re certainly going. One of my best college buds loves in Lafayette so we’ll be able to get together also. I’m just surprised that I’d never heard of Commanders Palace. I haven’t been to NOLA in 6 years so I’m excited to have a reason to go.
Do they serve whole milk?
Probably not Braums so I’ll just have to go with whiskey, wine and beer.

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cardsfansince82
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Re: rant: fine dining

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lukethedrifter wrote:
cardsfansince82 wrote:The shake shack in Denver was thoroughly underwhelming. I could try another location to see if it’s any different, but I doubt I will even bother.
Underwhelming as in not overwhelming? Was the burger dry? Fries soggy?
I guess I just expected it to be better based on how much people talk it up. It was an ok meal but not really good enough to justify the price. In n Out is objectively better food for half the price. Five Guys and a bunch of other places are better. Maybe the bar was set too high going in, but I was super confused how that place is so hyped.

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lukethedrifter
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Re: rant: fine dining

Post by lukethedrifter »

cardsfansince82 wrote:
lukethedrifter wrote:
cardsfansince82 wrote:The shake shack in Denver was thoroughly underwhelming. I could try another location to see if it’s any different, but I doubt I will even bother.
Underwhelming as in not overwhelming? Was the burger dry? Fries soggy?
I guess I just expected it to be better based on how much people talk it up. It was an ok meal but not really good enough to justify the price. In n Out is objectively better food for half the price. Five Guys and a bunch of other places are better. Maybe the bar was set too high going in, but I was super confused how that place is so hyped.
Hell no to 5 Guys. Mealy fries. Bland burger taste. Haven’t had In n Out but have no idea how it could be objectively better. Sounds like one of 33’s “demonstrably better” posts that got him in the GRB doghouse.

Sorry for dragging you into this 33.

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33anda3rd
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Re: rant: fine dining

Post by 33anda3rd »

lukethedrifter wrote:
cardsfansince82 wrote:
lukethedrifter wrote:
cardsfansince82 wrote:The shake shack in Denver was thoroughly underwhelming. I could try another location to see if it’s any different, but I doubt I will even bother.
Underwhelming as in not overwhelming? Was the burger dry? Fries soggy?
I guess I just expected it to be better based on how much people talk it up. It was an ok meal but not really good enough to justify the price. In n Out is objectively better food for half the price. Five Guys and a bunch of other places are better. Maybe the bar was set too high going in, but I was super confused how that place is so hyped.
Hell no to 5 Guys. Mealy fries. Bland burger taste. Haven’t had In n Out but have no idea how it could be objectively better. Sounds like one of 33’s “demonstrably better” posts that got him in the GRB doghouse.

Sorry for dragging you into this 33.
I need dragged into a demonstrably/objectively argument about like I need dragged into a conversation about bourbon LOL.

In n Out is a very good burger, objectively, but let's be real it's not like it's worlds different than a lot of places. Thin patties, smash-burger style on the griddle, gooey cheese, fresh condiments and a bun that's kinda soft that you can hold on to, squeeze into a little bit. Here in Chicago Fatso's, Red Hot Ranch, Small Cheval, and dozens of other places serve that style of burger and they're all really really good and on par with what In N Out puts out--just minus the weird Jesus stuff. I'd imagine in a lot of cities that's the case. And the reason I love those burgers is they're like mom made: Butternut bun, Kraft or Velveeta singles, fried patty, some pickles and mustard and mayo. Those burgers hit me here ((points to heart)) and there's no cheffy Housemade Pretzel Roll With Fancy German Cheese And Housemade Onion Jam With Crispy Housemade Pancetta And Housemade Whatever Aioli that will ever top mom's burger. Basically there's a whole wave of Mom's Burgers in the US right now, and it's a good thing because it turns out our moms had burgers down better than most chefs.

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cardsfansince82
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Re: rant: fine dining

Post by cardsfansince82 »

I fully agree on mom burgers. The genius of In n Out is they give you a great mom burger and the best fries on earth for like $7. No one else can touch that. Shake Shack was more like $15 for a mom burger that wouldn't even crack the top 5 in KC (not exactly burger paradise). If people like it, fine. But I didn't see any reason for that place to show up on prestigious lists like they are doing something special or unique.

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Re: rant: fine dining

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

cardsfansince82 wrote:I fully agree on mom burgers. The genius of In n Out is they give you a great mom burger and the best fries on earth for like $7. No one else can touch that. Shake Shack was more like $15 for a mom burger that wouldn't even crack the top 5 in KC (not exactly burger paradise). If people like it, fine. But I didn't see any reason for that place to show up on prestigious lists like they are doing something special or unique.
++

Haven't eaten much in 'n out but did get some last time I was in vegas

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Re: rant: fine dining

Post by Freed Roger »

33anda3rd wrote:
lukethedrifter wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:Food and Wine just published a list of the 40 most important American restaurants of the last 40 years. Commanders Palace was #1. If invited were invited for a meal there, I'd go.
Only Shake Shack and Chez Panisse for me.
I’ve been to those and a few others but the one I’m really happy to see on there is Curaté in Asheville.
We stayed near Curate 3 or 4 times and never tried to go there until the last evening of last visit( i think i saw you comment on it) . Then we couldnt get in. Kicking myself. We've been to about every where else near there.
I guess the thought was spanish tapas- that's not Southern food. another factor was having our daughter with us a couple of times .

We did go to Salsas, twice (thanks Tim for the recommendation) -tiny place, not fancy- Caribbean Mex food, I suppose, and really good.

and not fine dining, but Wicked Weed has pretty good food for a bustling brewery. (mad they sold out)

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33anda3rd
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Re: rant: fine dining

Post by 33anda3rd »

cardsfansince82 wrote:I fully agree on mom burgers. The genius of In n Out is they give you a great mom burger and the best fries on earth for like $7. No one else can touch that. Shake Shack was more like $15 for a mom burger that wouldn't even crack the top 5 in KC (not exactly burger paradise). If people like it, fine. But I didn't see any reason for that place to show up on prestigious lists like they are doing something special or unique.
You're paying for ingredients. In N Out uses a lot of stuff that the EU and several European countries have banned. They use cottonseed oil (banned in the EU) to fry their fries, and that doesn't exactly belong in our diet. It probably has some of the pesticides used on cotton crops. In N Out patties are from factory farms. Their buns are likely full of hydrogenated soybean oil (banned in several European countries) and beet sugar that comes from GMO crops full of good ol' Monsanto Herbicide, which the WHO labels a carcinogen. Their sauce likely has plenty of high fructose corn syrup and Yellow #5 color, which is petroleum based and not very good for us. We don't know for sure about most of this, but it's all pretty likely. This is cheap, commodity-based food and it's why IMO comping the cost of In N Out to Shake Shack is not entirely fair. All this said, I do enjoy an In N Out burger, it's tasty.

Shake Shack is the opposite: 100% transparent. They published a cookbook that gives their recipes. They use Martin's Potato Rolls--no trans fat, no dye, no high fructose corn syrup, non-GMO. They use a proprietary beef blend from a well-known butcher. They're not hiding anything--but good luck finding out what exactly is in an In N Out burger.

To comp both In N Out and Shake Shack to how well the staffs are taken care of, it's about the same. Both pay good wages, have 401(K), offer paid leave and generally take good care of their team members.

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haltz
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Re: rant: fine dining

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I had Amberjack collar at a place I didn't know existed called Nippon Tei in a strip center in Ballwin. It was amazing. We also ordered sushi, some sort of a salad with fried lotus root and pad thai. Everything was great. Apparently it's been there since 2001 but the the owner's son just took it over and is doing some really cool stuff.

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Re: rant: fine dining

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haltz wrote:I had Amberjack collar at a place I didn't know existed called Nippon Tei in a strip center in Ballwin. It was amazing. We also ordered sushi, some sort of a salad with fried lotus root and pad thai. Everything was great. Apparently it's been there since 2001 but the the owner's son just took it over and is doing some really cool stuff.
Stuff like this is what I want to eat pretty much all the time now.

1. Legitimately ethnic. Non-western European and -American. Not a white dude cooking the food of another culture.

2. Humble storefront/strip mall neighborhood joint.

3. Affordable--you can have an entree for under $20.

Chances are if a place fits those three things I'll very much enjoy eating there.

Edit to add....

Also specific regional American things. Some of my favorite meals in the past handful of years have been Red Bridges BBQ in Shelby, NC; Buddy's Pizza in Detroit; Prince's Hot Chicken in Nashville; Franklin BBQ in Austin. Those places that have helped define a region's cooking, from the source, are a very special thing.

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