GDT 8/22/11-Dodgers (Eovaldi) at Cards (Carpenter) 7:15 CDT

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Cronos
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Re: GDT 8/22/11-Dodgers (Eovaldi) at Cards (Carpenter) 7:15

Post by Cronos »

cards2468 wrote:Cronos, I side with you a lot, but c'mon.... this guy has [expletive] us over way too many times, and tonight was a glistening example of a classic ball game being ruined by him. I don't know if it was him or Lilliquist that made the decision, eitherway, it [expletive] ruined this game.
He will make a strange move from time to time (especially more lately) based on an instinct, or a statistical anomaly, or stuff that we as fans cannot honestly figure out. Also, it might be because of stuff that Duncan talks about. Or it might be the GM saying that this player that was acquired needs to be used to justify a trade. Or it might be because he wants to make a point.

Most of the time, he makes the right move. Even today. I empathize with him most of the time when he leaves a starter in longer than he should or takes him out to soon because he wants to give them a boost of morale. If it doesn't work, it might backfire, but he has to try and provide as much support for whatever player he happens to target because that player really needs it.

If there is one thing that TLR is masterful at, it is knowing whether to build a guy up or knock him down a peg in order to get the most out of him. Pujols is a guy who needs to be built up. Edmonds was a guy who needed to be knocked down a peg. Same with Rolen (how did he respond to being benched in the '06 playoffs?). I know I'm biased, but the mental and psychological aspect of the game is lost on/ignored by most. And TLR pays attention to it rather than treating the players like robots, which I appreciate.

As far as whether or not he should still be a part of the org moving forward? As I've said before, if there is an inherent problem with the way the organization is run as a whole, the problem is that there are too many cooks in the kitchen. There's a lot of baseball experience and smarts in the organization. But with too many voices comes problems when it comes down to what the players are taught and told to do and who they can really trust.

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Re: GDT 8/22/11-Dodgers (Eovaldi) at Cards (Carpenter) 7:15

Post by Lesson »

Would I have liked to seen Carp go out for the 9th inning? Sure, but I don't think what LaRussa's decision to go to the bullpen was a bad one.

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Re: GDT 8/22/11-Dodgers (Eovaldi) at Cards (Carpenter) 7:15

Post by slide_into_first »

Tony LaRussa has ruined the team's chemistry.

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Re: GDT 8/22/11-Dodgers (Eovaldi) at Cards (Carpenter) 7:15

Post by themiddle54 »

I didn't read the whole thread, but has anyone asked why Salas isn't setting up Motte? Or Salas isn't setting up Boggs? It would seem beneficial to have the best bullpen pitcher pitching the higher leverage.

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Re: GDT 8/22/11-Dodgers (Eovaldi) at Cards (Carpenter) 7:15

Post by dmarx114 »

I wonder if Tony pulled Carp because he didn't want to risk Carp getting hit with the loss?

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Re: GDT 8/22/11-Dodgers (Eovaldi) at Cards (Carpenter) 7:15

Post by Hungary Jack »

dmarx114 wrote:I wonder if Tony pulled Carp because he didn't want to risk Carp getting hit with the loss?
Huh?

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Re: GDT 8/22/11-Dodgers (Eovaldi) at Cards (Carpenter) 7:15

Post by dmarx114 »

Cronos wrote:
cards2468 wrote:Cronos, I side with you a lot, but c'mon.... this guy has [expletive] us over way too many times, and tonight was a glistening example of a classic ball game being ruined by him. I don't know if it was him or Lilliquist that made the decision, eitherway, it [expletive] ruined this game.
He will make a strange move from time to time (especially more lately) based on an instinct, or a statistical anomaly, or stuff that we as fans cannot honestly figure out. Also, it might be because of stuff that Duncan talks about. Or it might be the GM saying that this player that was acquired needs to be used to justify a trade. Or it might be because he wants to make a point.

Most of the time, he makes the right move. Even today. I empathize with him most of the time when he leaves a starter in longer than he should or takes him out to soon because he wants to give them a boost of morale. If it doesn't work, it might backfire, but he has to try and provide as much support for whatever player he happens to target because that player really needs it.

If there is one thing that TLR is masterful at, it is knowing whether to build a guy up or knock him down a peg in order to get the most out of him. Pujols is a guy who needs to be built up. Edmonds was a guy who needed to be knocked down a peg. Same with Rolen (how did he respond to being benched in the '06 playoffs?). I know I'm biased, but the mental and psychological aspect of the game is lost on/ignored by most. And TLR pays attention to it rather than treating the players like robots, which I appreciate.

As far as whether or not he should still be a part of the org moving forward? As I've said before, if there is an inherent problem with the way the organization is run as a whole, the problem is that there are too many cooks in the kitchen. There's a lot of baseball experience and smarts in the organization. But with too many voices comes problems when it comes down to what the players are taught and told to do and who they can really trust.
I'm pretty sure I disagree with this entire post.

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Re: GDT 8/22/11-Dodgers (Eovaldi) at Cards (Carpenter) 7:15

Post by dmarx114 »

Hungary Jack wrote:
dmarx114 wrote:I wonder if Tony pulled Carp because he didn't want to risk Carp getting hit with the loss?
Huh?
If Carp gives up a HR to Ethier, he is the losing pitcher. By taking Carp out with 1 on in a 1-0 game, Carp can't be the losing pitcher. I wonder if that factored into Tony's decision to pull Carp when he did.

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Re: GDT 8/22/11-Dodgers (Eovaldi) at Cards (Carpenter) 7:15

Post by heyzeus »

dmarx114 wrote:
Hungary Jack wrote:
dmarx114 wrote:I wonder if Tony pulled Carp because he didn't want to risk Carp getting hit with the loss?
Huh?
If Carp gives up a HR to Ethier, he is the losing pitcher. By taking Carp out with 1 on in a 1-0 game, Carp can't be the losing pitcher. I wonder if that factored into Tony's decision to pull Carp when he did.
So Tony would be thinking "We're going to lose either way, so might as well not let it hang on Carpenter?"

Clever like a fox!

And for the record, I now assume we'll find a way to lose, no matter what, even if we're ahead with 2 outs in the 9th.

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Re: GDT 8/22/11-Dodgers (Eovaldi) at Cards (Carpenter) 7:15

Post by Joe Shlabotnik »

dmarx114 wrote:
Hungary Jack wrote:
dmarx114 wrote:I wonder if Tony pulled Carp because he didn't want to risk Carp getting hit with the loss?
Huh?
If Carp gives up a HR to Ethier, he is the losing pitcher. By taking Carp out with 1 on in a 1-0 game, Carp can't be the losing pitcher. I wonder if that factored into Tony's decision to pull Carp when he did.
I don't know if anyone else noticed Carp seemed to say something that made TLR's eyes bug our a bit when TLR came to pull him. He also pulled something off Tony's jersey while he was talking to him like you do when you want to be dismissive. Wonder what he said. I'm probably blowing it all out of proportion.

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