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 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 11:37 am 
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Also there was that point yesterday when Cohen mentioned that six months ago he was the finance chair of the RNC, having been asked that by a Dem. He added "I was a Democrat, until Steve Wynn told me I had to change

Reading Cohen's wiki entry yesterday, I noticed this party allegiance flip flopping.

Trump is/was the same damn way. It is simply what Frauds and con men do. They are generally amoral and use political allegiance to run their scams and to gain power. (see mini-Trump- Eric Greitens)

Earlier on in this political run by Trump, some GOPers were also pointing this out. But they have mostly disappeared, become silent or conceded to Trump for their tax cuts and what not. Trump owns those [expletive]. it really is sad what conservatives have enabled.


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 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 11:39 am 
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33anda3rd wrote:
She also has congressional staff to assist, yes? And resources in the DNC? I'd guess that given her level of popularity and the LeBron Jamesian level of magnificence that she's handling herself at what is a VERY young age for her position, the DNC is probably very "...and if there's anything we can do in the way of resources to assist you...." with her right now.


She credited her staff on Twitter today, noting that this is why she pays them better than other hill staffers


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 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 11:55 am 
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It is clear now that not only have many (most?) Republicans decided to embrace Trump to get what they want. That's one thing that sucks about them. But now they have taken it a step further and also adopted his confrontational, temper-tantrum, gaslighting style of discourse. I think they know how easy the dots are to connect. But they think if they make a big enough scene, maybe they can draw people's attention away from the dots. It's the same exact kind of thing Trump himself does all the time. It's extremely weird to see a whole other group of people doing it now, and doing it on Trump's behalf. It's spreading like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.


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 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 12:30 pm 
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pioneer98 wrote:
It is clear now that not only have many (most?) Republicans decided to embrace Trump to get what they want. That's one thing that sucks about them. But now they have taken it a step further and also adopted his confrontational, temper-tantrum, gaslighting style of discourse. I think they know how easy the dots are to connect. But they think if they make a big enough scene, maybe they can draw people's attention away from the dots. It's the same exact kind of thing Trump himself does all the time. It's extremely weird to see a whole other group of people doing it now, and doing it on Trump's behalf. It's spreading like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.


It honestly reminds me of the television show Suits. In the pilot episode, Harvey knows Mike never went to law school and that he is a fraud, but hires him anyway because he knows his [expletive] since he has a photographic memory. In the season one finale, Jessica (the head of the firm) finds out he's never been to law school. Rather than firing him (and likely Harvey as well), she becomes complicit in the crime. Each year more and more people find out. Eventually the justice department finds out due to an anonymous letter from a Harvard employee, and he goes to jail - the entire firm essentially crumbles because now they have a boatload of cases Mike was involved in that are being opened back up and they have to settle all of them.


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 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 12:40 pm 
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33anda3rd wrote:
Swirls wrote:
Unfortunately the use of actual logic seems to escape the Trump blowhards. My entire damn FB feed yesterday was full of something along the lines of, "OMG I can't believe Cohen is on TV, I can't stand this guy for lying to Congress! Why's he up there now? You can't trust a word he says!"



This is the stuff that puts the "fundamental" in "fundamentalism." Clearly defined binaries are one of the basic building block features of fundamentalism in religion and politics. Cohen did some bad things and therefore is all bad and can't be trusted. A woman who gets an abortion has done a bad thing and therefore is entirely bad--"baby killer." Donald Trump is, in their view, good for being a racist misogynist xenophobe fear- and hate-monger and therefore is all good--he could not possibly be lying, or colluding, or cheating people, or conning people. A person is either good or bad, right or wrong, with us or against us, and there isn't any room for gray or nuance or probability scales. Pair that with a leader they find charismatic and it's a hell of a thing.


A few weeks ago I got into one hell of a political argument with an old co-worker from New York regarding "the wall." It actually went on for multiple days and ended with about 20 different people chiming in against this one person who was defending Trump's actions. It was honestly kind of sad, but almost comical at the same time. No matter what evidence (with links) was provided, he refused to believe them and accused everyone of being blind sheep who copy/paste links from google - he "traveled extensively" for work and all of his views and statements came from his own eyes at being in places like El Paso or Arizona.

He would repeatedly say you cannot trust any news outlet, no matter what party they were tied to, as all their information is inaccurate. Yet he regurgitates Trump tweets as gospel. When he would be called out on it, he would usually deflect into saying that his information is correct because he's seen firsthand how accurate it is. He'd say he was in a truck stop in Texas and saw a bunch of kids speaking Spanish - clearly it's an illegal immigration problem. Violence is up in border towns (everyone knows it's not), drugs are smuggled in at the border (everyone knows they're not), they're taking jobs away from American workers (everyone knows they're not, as most lazy Americans would consider the manual labor they do to be beneath them), etc.

It just went on and on and on. "Stop being a sheep and make your own decisions based on actual observations." Yet he continued to do the opposite.

*shakes head in pity*


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 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 12:46 pm 
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Swirls wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:
Swirls wrote:
Unfortunately the use of actual logic seems to escape the Trump blowhards. My entire damn FB feed yesterday was full of something along the lines of, "OMG I can't believe Cohen is on TV, I can't stand this guy for lying to Congress! Why's he up there now? You can't trust a word he says!"



This is the stuff that puts the "fundamental" in "fundamentalism." Clearly defined binaries are one of the basic building block features of fundamentalism in religion and politics. Cohen did some bad things and therefore is all bad and can't be trusted. A woman who gets an abortion has done a bad thing and therefore is entirely bad--"baby killer." Donald Trump is, in their view, good for being a racist misogynist xenophobe fear- and hate-monger and therefore is all good--he could not possibly be lying, or colluding, or cheating people, or conning people. A person is either good or bad, right or wrong, with us or against us, and there isn't any room for gray or nuance or probability scales. Pair that with a leader they find charismatic and it's a hell of a thing.


A few weeks ago I got into one hell of a political argument with an old co-worker from New York regarding "the wall." It actually went on for multiple days and ended with about 20 different people chiming in against this one person who was defending Trump's actions. It was honestly kind of sad, but almost comical at the same time. No matter what evidence (with links) was provided, he refused to believe them and accused everyone of being blind sheep who copy/paste links from google - he "traveled extensively" for work and all of his views and statements came from his own eyes at being in places like El Paso or Arizona.

He would repeatedly say you cannot trust any news outlet, no matter what party they were tied to, as all their information is inaccurate. Yet he regurgitates Trump tweets as gospel. When he would be called out on it, he would usually deflect into saying that his information is correct because he's seen firsthand how accurate it is. He'd say he was in a truck stop in Texas and saw a bunch of kids speaking Spanish - clearly it's an illegal immigration problem. Violence is up in border towns (everyone knows it's not), drugs are smuggled in at the border (everyone knows they're not), they're taking jobs away from American workers (everyone knows they're not, as most lazy Americans would consider the manual labor they do to be beneath them), etc.

It just went on and on and on. "Stop being a sheep and make your own decisions based on actual observations." Yet he continued to do the opposite.

*shakes head in pity*



I think the guy knows he is wrong. This is like the climate change debate. All the scientists are telling us it's a crisis. And conservatives make bad faith arguments like "But it still gets cold in January". They make the bad faith arguments not because they believe them, but because they don't want to say the real reason(s) for their positions. In the case of immigration, the real reason is they are racist. In the case of climate change, the real reason is they know they themsleves will be fine and that only poor people will drown in the ocean when it rises, and they don't care. These real reasons are psychotic and socially unacceptable, and they know they can't say them out loud.


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 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 12:56 pm 
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Swirls wrote:
Spoiler: show
33anda3rd wrote:
Swirls wrote:
Unfortunately the use of actual logic seems to escape the Trump blowhards. My entire damn FB feed yesterday was full of something along the lines of, "OMG I can't believe Cohen is on TV, I can't stand this guy for lying to Congress! Why's he up there now? You can't trust a word he s[spoiler]ays!"



This is the stuff that puts the "fundamental" in "fundamentalism." Clearly defined binaries are one of the basic building block features of fundamentalism in religion and politics. Cohen did some bad things and therefore is all bad and can't be trusted. A woman who gets an abortion has done a bad thing and therefore is entirely bad--"baby killer." Donald Trump is, in their view, good for being a racist misogynist xenophobe fear- and hate-monger and therefore is all good--he could not possibly be lying, or colluding, or cheating people, or conning people. A person is either good or bad, right or wrong, with us or against us, and there isn't any room for gray or nuance or probability scales. Pair that with a leader they find charismatic and it's a hell of a thing.


A few weeks ago I got into one hell of a political argument with an old co-worker from New York regarding "the wall." It actually went on for multiple days and ended with about 20 different people chiming in against this one person who was defending Trump's actions. It was honestly kind of sad, but almost comical at the same time. No matter what evidence (with links) was provided, he refused to believe them and accused everyone of being blind sheep who copy/paste links from google - he "traveled extensively" for work and all of his views and statements came from his own eyes at being in places like El Paso or Arizona.

He would repeatedly say you cannot trust any news outlet, no matter what party they were tied to, as all their information is inaccurate. Yet he regurgitates Trump tweets as gospel. When he would be called out on it, he would usually deflect into saying that his information is correct because he's seen firsthand how accurate it is. He'd say he was in a truck stop in Texas and saw a bunch of kids speaking Spanish - clearly it's an illegal immigration problem. Violence is up in border towns (everyone knows it's not), drugs are smuggled in at the border (everyone knows they're not), they're taking jobs away from American workers (everyone knows they're not, as most lazy Americans would consider the manual labor they do to be beneath them), etc.

It just went on and on and on. "Stop being a sheep and make your own decisions based on actual observations." Yet he continued to do the opposite.

*shakes head in pity*

Thanks for sharing that saga Swirls. I've cut most of that dialog and the people that spew it, out of my life. I realize it is just an anecdote, but that guy seems indicative of this vocal zealous minority -which has power/representation in govt well beyond their #s.


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 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 1:05 pm 
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33anda3rd wrote:
Also there was that point yesterday when Cohen mentioned that six months ago he was the finance chair of the RNC, having been asked that by a Dem. He added "I was a Democrat, until Steve Wynn told me I had to change."


I didn't get that statement from Cohen. Who the hell is Wynn that Cohen would change political party allegiance because he said to? I was really confused by that comment.


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 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 1:16 pm 
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A Q&A with a law expert, published by The New Yorker, on yesterday's hearing:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/a-legal-expert-on-what-we-learned-from-michael-cohens-congressional-testimony


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 Post subject: Re: GDT Cohen Hearing
PostPosted: February 28 19, 5:18 pm 
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mikechamp wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:
Also there was that point yesterday when Cohen mentioned that six months ago he was the finance chair of the RNC, having been asked that by a Dem. He added "I was a Democrat, until Steve Wynn told me I had to change."


I didn't get that statement from Cohen. Who the hell is Wynn that Cohen would change political party allegiance because he said to? I was really confused by that comment.


He was the previous RNC finance chair and a man who also had little business being the RNC finance chair but who was a Trump friend. He was also an ex-Dem who supported Harry Reid in his home state and who supported Obama in 2008. It's just high school locker room nonsense--hey, here's a position for you...if you're with us, man.


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