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PostPosted: May 15 19, 12:14 pm 
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Fat Strat wrote:
G. Keenan wrote:
IMADreamer wrote:
Health care. By the time we are old if we don't fix this system it won't matter how much money you socked away in your life. Some hospital will get it all.


This is very true. I've been trying to get my act together lately on retirement saving and investing, and one point that is continuously at the forefront of financial concerns is the near inevitability of massive medical bills later in life.

Think of all the money we can't spend on living life today because we each individually have to plan for huge bills to die with dignity.


Except, being around this kind of thing all the time, in the end most people don't get to die with dignity. They get put somewhere they don't want to go by family members who don't want to put them there. Then they live with loneliness, constant pain, loss, and perpetual grief as they lose friends, make new friends that they then lose, and have their entire lives taken away from them and sold off. Even the nicest assisted living facilities and nursing homes are places of perpetual suffering.

This is a conversation for another thread and largely a philosophical one, but our medical quest to prolong life as long as possible is not prolonging life. It is creating non-life through the avoidance of death. No solutions offered here; just my observations dealing many families in this situation.

I lost both my parents in their 60s. My mom had lupus and was a shell of her former self. My dad had lung cancer and it spread too fast for them to save him. My dad was in hospice for a couple of weeks. Other than that, none of my parents or grandparents had to spend any time in assisted living. I do thank God for that at least.


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PostPosted: May 15 19, 12:18 pm 
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Gun control.


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PostPosted: May 15 19, 12:32 pm 
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Fat Strat wrote:
G. Keenan wrote:
IMADreamer wrote:
Health care. By the time we are old if we don't fix this system it won't matter how much money you socked away in your life. Some hospital will get it all.


This is very true. I've been trying to get my act together lately on retirement saving and investing, and one point that is continuously at the forefront of financial concerns is the near inevitability of massive medical bills later in life.

Think of all the money we can't spend on living life today because we each individually have to plan for huge bills to die with dignity.


Except, being around this kind of thing all the time, in the end most people don't get to die with dignity. They get put somewhere they don't want to go by family members who don't want to put them there. Then they live with loneliness, constant pain, loss, and perpetual grief as they lose friends, make new friends that they then lose, and have their entire lives taken away from them and sold off. Even the nicest assisted living facilities and nursing homes are places of perpetual suffering.

This is a conversation for another thread and largely a philosophical one, but our medical quest to prolong life as long as possible is not prolonging life. It is creating non-life through the avoidance of death. No solutions offered here; just my observations dealing many families in this situation.


Indeed, and I've personally seen the end of life contrast between the US system and a socialized system in the UK. For my grandmother in the UK, she got to die at home in comfort and with family. The National Health Service sent doctors to her house every day plus overnight nursing care, and the contrast to how her situation (pancreatic cancer) would have been handled in the US could not be greater.


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PostPosted: May 15 19, 12:43 pm 
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Illinois is so late in the primary cycle being a single issue voter isn't really a luxury I have. That's one reason I haven't been really followed the candidates thus far.

I guess the single biggest thing I'd like from a candidate is to effectively repudiate the type of xenophobic domestic and international white nationalism Trump/Republicans are promoting.


Last edited by Michael on May 15 19, 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: May 15 19, 12:47 pm 
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This would make a good poll. (hint, hint)


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PostPosted: May 15 19, 1:19 pm 
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Michael wrote:
Illinois is so late in the primary cycle being a single issue voter isn't really a luxury I have. That's one reason I haven't been really followed the candidates thus far.

After years of irrelevant primary votes, I was a Super Tuesday voter in 2016, and I still recall thinking the election was already pretty much decided after Bernie's dismal showing in South Carolina. Perhaps that was overly pessimistic, but it's amazing how few states end up getting an actual choice.


Last edited by Arthur Dent on May 15 19, 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: May 15 19, 1:43 pm 
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G. Keenan wrote:
My single issue is universal healthcare. That one issue has so much potential to transform our society for the better. Start with the health benefits to individuals and communities of better primary care, better mental health care, better access to specialty care, etc. Think of the stress it removes from everyone's life to not worry about healthcare like we do. Imagine not having to organize your work life around getting/affording health insurance. Imagine how much more freedom and independence people would have knowing that their healthcare needs are covered as a collective project of society.

Beyond all that, a successful universal healthcare system could boost civic engagement. If our healthcare is a collective project we all buy into it gives everyone more skin the game, more reason to care about what govt. does and how it spends money. Should we start a war with Iran, or finance our own healthcare? Should we cut taxes for billionaires every few years, or finance healthcare? If it works, it will belie the Republican talking points that govt. is hopeless, govt. can never do anything right, govt. intervention in any aspect of the private sector is bad, etc. A shift in that paradigm can open up possibilities for collective thinking towards other big problems like climate, infrastructure, violence, etc.

It would not be a panacea, but by and large, the countries that have universal healthcare love their systems and would not trade them for ours in a million years. And while they have their divisions over many of the same issues we do, their societies are not still litigating the fundamental questions of government's role in society. It is simply expected that govt. should be providing its citizenry with certain basic protections. Here we cannot even get to that point because we're still arguing over who "deserves" what.



I could be convinced to go this route too. Once Medicare for All is paying for all/most health care, we can start looking at all the things that are costing us too much. For example: "Medicare for All is paying $X billion every year to take care of gunshot wounds." We can use that to go after gun control. Another one: "Medicare for All is paying $X billion to care for people who are sick or got cancer from pollution." We can use that to go after polluters. Or maybe even: "Medicare for All is paying $X billion to treat workplace injuries." We can use that to go after employers that are making jobs too dangerous. Keep in mind that our society is already paying for all these massive problems in other ways right now, but since it is put on private insurance who pass the costs to their customers, all the real costs of these problems are obscured. Medicare for All would put all those costs in one place and make it much clearer how much these problems are costing us, and it would also make it "fiscally conservative" to try to address these problems (not to mention the right thing to do).

This is one reason I have not given up hope. All these things are so intertwined that if we ever even get 1 of these things done, I think it will have a ripple effect and improve other things that you may not have guessed. But we can't stop there.


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PostPosted: May 15 19, 3:40 pm 
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If single issue is taken to mean something that could break me from my general ideological inclinations, it has to be climate change. If Inslee's campaign about committing to climate action as the single top priority was a real possible outcome and not a gimmick, it'd be hard to argue against. If it means what to use as an ideological litmus test, it's Medicare for All.


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PostPosted: May 15 19, 3:46 pm 
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G. Keenan wrote:
IMADreamer wrote:
Health care. By the time we are old if we don't fix this system it won't matter how much money you socked away in your life. Some hospital will get it all.


This is very true. I've been trying to get my act together lately on retirement saving and investing, and one point that is continuously at the forefront of financial concerns is the near inevitability of massive medical bills later in life.

Think of all the money we can't spend on living life today because we each individually have to plan for huge bills to die with dignity.



I saw it happen with my grandparents and now my parents. My Grandparents did all right for themselves. Grandma got Alzhiemers, and Grandpa had a stroke. They lived out their last years in the nursing home, which got all of their life savings.

My parents did well enough to have a nice nest egg stored up for when they retired. Mom got cancer, Dad had a heart attack and thus open heart surgery. Then Mom had a rare thing happen that was super expensive, then Dad got cancer. They both have insurance but you know when things cost 100k+ a pop it eats into your savings hard.

I know people think I'm nuts, but when I see what's happened to my parents who have never hurt anyone in their lives and who have always worked hard. Then I take a look at Trump and those other rich [expletive] living it up never working at all and just crushing the little guys, I want to start slitting throats.


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PostPosted: May 15 19, 4:58 pm 
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IMADreamer wrote:

I know people think I'm nuts, but when I see what's happened to my parents who have never hurt anyone in their lives and who have always worked hard. Then I take a look at Trump and those other rich [expletive] living it up never working at all and just crushing the little guys, I want to start slitting throats.


Related to this: my wife and I have told our kids REPEATEDLY don't keep us around just to have a hospital suck away their inheritance. Put us down. We've lived our lives, had our children and grand children. And they are who should get our hard earned dollars. F*ck the hyper-capitalists.

I hope they listen to us. It's their own fault if they get nothing in the end.


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