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PostPosted: June 19 19, 6:44 am 
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Freed Roger wrote:
GeddyWrox wrote:
Racism is an insidious beast. It permeates everything in our nation whether we choose to see it or not.

Absolutely, Geddy.

I really don't care for the term White Privilege with the confusion and dissension it causes.

.


1000% agree to that! Not going all "White Lives Matter" on this but I think the term "White Privilege" when applied to all white people really bothers those of us non-prep school, rich douches that cruise through life with few obstacles and a wealthy future predetermined at birth. I suppose it is possible, maybe even likely, that I wasn't pulled over a time or two because of my whiteness. I don't look at unfortunate run-ins with racial profiling cops as white privilege. I look at that as a problem with our broken law enforcement system that profiles and targets dark skin.


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PostPosted: June 19 19, 7:11 am 
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Sutter'sBeard wrote:
Freed Roger wrote:
GeddyWrox wrote:
Racism is an insidious beast. It permeates everything in our nation whether we choose to see it or not.

Absolutely, Geddy.

I really don't care for the term White Privilege with the confusion and dissension it causes.

.


1000% agree to that! Not going all "White Lives Matter" on this but I think the term "White Privilege" when applied to all white people really bothers those of us non-prep school, rich douches that cruise through life with few obstacles and a wealthy future predetermined at birth. I suppose it is possible, maybe even likely, that I wasn't pulled over a time or two because of my whiteness. I don't look at unfortunate run-ins with racial profiling cops as white privilege. I look at that as a problem with our broken law enforcement system that profiles and targets dark skin.



You can have white privilege and still have a difficult life. It just means that your skin color is not one of the things that made your life hard. I don't know why this is so controversial or hard to get.

(Not saying people in here don't get it but I just had a very lengthy Facebook conversation about this with a thin skinned white dude)


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PostPosted: June 19 19, 7:34 am 
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GeddyWrox wrote:
Words matter. Even if it is subconsciously. We are all pretty familiar with the story by now, so we can see through the subtly, but to someone who doesn't know much about the history of the game, and the racist history of our nation, can you not see the difference???

A: “the first African American to break the color line and play in major-league baseball.”

B: “the first black man whites allowed to play major-league baseball.”


It's obvious that phrasing A puts the focus on Robinson instead of the white-controlled MLB. Phrasing B *clearly* puts the onus on white people & MLB.



Again, I've never met anyone who said or implied that Robinson was the first black player good enough to play MLB. Jackie Robinson's story has been told pretty thoroughly and pretty clearly for as long as I can remember.


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PostPosted: June 19 19, 8:11 am 
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Racism exists FARRRRR beyond the things we can witness in our own personal lives. Look past the tip of your nose. I'm sure you'll see it.


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PostPosted: June 19 19, 8:11 am 
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Socnorb11 wrote:
GeddyWrox wrote:
Words matter. Even if it is subconsciously. We are all pretty familiar with the story by now, so we can see through the subtly, but to someone who doesn't know much about the history of the game, and the racist history of our nation, can you not see the difference???

A: “the first African American to break the color line and play in major-league baseball.”

B: “the first black man whites allowed to play major-league baseball.”


It's obvious that phrasing A puts the focus on Robinson instead of the white-controlled MLB. Phrasing B *clearly* puts the onus on white people & MLB.



Again, I've never met anyone who said or implied that Robinson was the first black player good enough to play MLB. Jackie Robinson's story has been told pretty thoroughly and pretty clearly for as long as I can remember.



I have heard the phrase "He broke the color barrier" a million times. "The color barrier" is a really kind way of saying "systemic racism in baseball". And by saying "he broke it", it takes the owners and front offices out of the picture, as if they were just bystanders in the process.


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PostPosted: June 19 19, 8:14 am 
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In other words, the teams and owners can't take any credit for Robinson being the first black player....because that would also mean they'd have to admit they were deeply, deeply racist for decades prior to that. They can't admit that.


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PostPosted: June 19 19, 8:39 am 
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GeddyWrox wrote:
Racism exists FARRRRR beyond the things we can witness in our own personal lives. Look past the tip of your nose. I'm sure you'll see it.

Agreed again. The "privilege" is being able to tune it all out, not be bothered that the POTUS is a racist or cops got a bullseye on someone else's black teenage son etc, because it doesn't affect you personally.

I think the privilege label still is not the best one. It goes beyond whiteness. There are plenty of apathetic people to these issues that aren't white.

Also, Sutter's point is valid- it isn't really a privilege if you are white, not-well off and apathetic to other peoples' plight because you have a lot to deal with on daily basis.

An age-old problem with abusive powers, when so many people mired in their circumstance to care about larger issues.

The irony, it is a privilege to be able to care or wax on about the topic in this forum.


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PostPosted: June 20 19, 2:21 pm 
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I was taught about white privilege in high school in the 1980’s. It was a Catholic school run by the Jesuits. At the time I thought the idea was kind of kooky, but now I see it as a real thing. To an audience of teenagers whose parents were wealthy enough to send their kids to private school it probably was a good thing to at least talk about.


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PostPosted: June 20 19, 2:38 pm 
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Freed Roger wrote:

Also, Sutter's point is valid- it isn't really a privilege if you are white, not-well off and apathetic to other peoples' plight because you have a lot to deal with on daily basis.



Regardless, being white for those people means they’re not fodder for the prison system. Racists don’t look at them and think “potentially dangerous criminal, let’s cross the street.”

So, what then, is the phrase?

White Fortune?
White Luck?
White Advantage?

How do you coin a phrase for the objective fact that it’s a privilege/lucky/fortunate/advantageous to be white in America even though there are people who don’t fit the textbook definition of “fortunate”? Do we skirt around the issue and, because it’s not fair to poor white people to insinuate they’re lucky, just not deal with it? Or do we just kind of acknowledge that a black guy, a white guy, a Mexican-American guy sitting in a police office in Alabama, the white guy is going to get the benefit of the doubt—a privilege that the others won’t, and move on.


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PostPosted: July 8 19, 3:07 pm 
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I'm reading The Man They Wanted Me To Be and it's extremely good. Here is a review of the book by Henry Rollins:

Men are expected to be ‘strong silent types’ — and it’s breaking them, says Henry Rollins

I'm a bit over halfway through. There's so much good stuff in the book I barely know where to begin. Early in the book he tries to make a case using history and statistics that toxic masculinity (especially the white kind) is what this country was founded on and it has been extremely slowly unwinding since then. He also argues that it will inevitably fail because it is unsustainable. He also has lots and lots of personal stories from growing up in a dirt poor broken household, and the parade of messed up dudes his mom tried to court as a husband and father figure to her kid. One thing he talked about that stuck with me is how our culture teaches men to try to fit themselves into 4 "approved" male archetypes - the jock, the hick, the prep, and the outlaw. He argues that a 5th culturally approved archetype was recently added - the internet troll. When I read that section, I think there is likely even a 6th one now - the tech bro or tech entrepreneur or whatever you want to call it. Anyway, men pretending to be one of these archetypes is extremely damaging to others, but also to themselves. How do we teach people this is so harmful and unnecessary?


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