Sweet 16: #2 Hank Aaron vs #3 Rogers Hornsby

Tambourine Man · Post by **Tambourine Man** » March 7 07, 7:51 pm

Hank Aaron

Bio

Exhibiting an understated style that became his trademark, Hank Aaron became the all-time home run champion via one of the most consistent offensive careers in baseball history. In addition to his 755 home runs, he also holds the major league record for total bases, extra-base hits and RBI. Aaron was named the 1957 National League MVP, won three Gold Gloves for his play in right field and was named to a record 24 All-Star squads.

Stats

Code: Select all

 Year Ag Tm  Lg  G   AB    R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS  BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG *OPS+  TB   SH  SF IBB HBP GDP 
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 1954 20 MLN NL 122  468   58  131  27  6  13   69   2  2  28  39  .280  .322  .447  104  209   6   4       3  13 RoY-4
 1955 21 MLN NL 153  602  105  189  37  9  27  106   3  1  49  61  .314  .366  .540  143  325   7   4   5   3  20 MVP-9,AS
 1956 22 MLN NL 153  609  106  200  34 14  26   92   2  4  37  54  .328  .365  .558  151  340   5   7   6   2  21 MVP-3,AS
 1957 23 MLN NL 151  615  118  198  27  6  44  132   1  1  57  58  .322  .378  .600  166  369   0   3  15   0  13 MVP-1,AS
 1958 24 MLN NL 153  601  109  196  34  4  30   95   4  1  59  49  .326  .386  .546  153  328   0   3  16   1  21 MVP-3,AS
 1959 25 MLN NL 154  629  116  223  46  7  39  123   8  0  51  54  .355  .401  .636  181  400   0   9  17   4  19 MVP-3,AS
 1960 26 MLN NL 153  590  102  172  20 11  40  126  16  7  60  63  .292  .352  .566  155  334   0  12  13   2   8 MVP-11,AS
 1961 27 MLN NL 155  603  115  197  39 10  34  120  21  9  56  64  .327  .381  .594  161  358   1   9  20   2  16 MVP-8,AS
 1962 28 MLN NL 156  592  127  191  28  6  45  128  15  7  66  73  .323  .390  .618  170  366   0   6  14   3  14 MVP-6,AS
 1963 29 MLN NL 161  631  121  201  29  4  44  130  31  5  78  94  .319  .391  .586  179  370   0   5  18   0  11 MVP-3,AS
 1964 30 MLN NL 145  570  103  187  30  2  24   95  22  4  62  46  .328  .393  .514  153  293   0   2   9   0  22 MVP-14,AS
 1965 31 MLN NL 150  570  109  181  40  1  32   89  24  4  60  81  .318  .379  .560  160  319   0   8  10   1  15 MVP-7,AS
 1966 32 ATL NL 158  603  117  168  23  1  44  127  21  3  76  96  .279  .356  .539  143  325   0   8  15   1  14 MVP-8,AS
 1967 33 ATL NL 155  600  113  184  37  3  39  109  17  6  63  97  .307  .369  .573  168  344   0   6  19   0  11 MVP-5,AS
 1968 34 ATL NL 160  606   84  174  33  4  29   86  28  5  64  62  .287  .354  .498  154  302   0   5  23   1  21 MVP-12,AS
 1969 35 ATL NL 147  547  100  164  30  3  44   97   9 10  87  47  .300  .396  .607  178  332   0   3  19   2  14 MVP-3,AS
 1970 36 ATL NL 150  516  103  154  26  1  38  118   9  0  74  63  .298  .385  .574  148  296   0   6  15   2  13 MVP-17,AS
 1971 37 ATL NL 139  495   95  162  22  3  47  118   1  1  71  58  .327  .410  .669  194  331   0   5  21   2   9 MVP-3,AS
 1972 38 ATL NL 129  449   75  119  10  0  34   77   4  0  92  55  .265  .390  .514  147  231   0   2  15   1  17 MVP-16,AS
 1973 39 ATL NL 120  392   84  118  12  1  40   96   1  1  68  51  .301  .402  .643  177  252   0   4  13   1   7 MVP-12,AS
 1974 40 ATL NL 112  340   47   91  16  0  20   69   1  0  39  29  .268  .341  .491  128  167   1   2   6   0   6 AS
 1975 41 MIL AL 137  465   45  109  16  2  12   60   0  1  70  51  .234  .332  .355   94  165   1   6   3   1  15 AS
 1976 42 MIL AL  85  271   22   62   8  0  10   35   0  1  35  38  .229  .315  .369  102  100   0   2   1   0   8
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 23 Seasons        12364      3771     98     2297     73    1383  .305  .374  .555  155       21 121 293  32 328
               3298      2174      624    755      240   1402                            6856
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 162 Game Avg        607  107  185  31  5  37  113  12  4  69  68  .305  .374  .555  155  337   1   6  14   2  16
 Career High    161  631  127  223  46 14  47  132  31 10  92  97  .355  .410  .669  194  400   7  12  23   4  22

vs.

Rogers Hornsby

Bio

Perhaps the game's most proficient right-handed hitter, Rogers Hornsby captured seven batting titles - including six in a row - topping .400 three times. A complete player with a fierce passion for the game, Hornsby's .424 mark in 1924 is a National League record for the 20th century and his career average of .359 is the highest ever in the National League. "The Rajah," a two-time MVP and two-time Triple Crown winner, was the player-manager of the Cardinals' first World Championship team in 1926 and was the first National League player to hit 300 home runs.

Stats

Code: Select all

Year Ag Tm  Lg  G   AB    R    H   2B 3B  HR  RBI  SB CS  BB  SO   BA   OBP   SLG *OPS+  TB   SH  SF IBB HBP GDP 
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 1915 19 STL NL  18   57    5   14   2  0   0    4   0  2   2   6  .246  .271  .281   67   16   2           0    
 1916 20 STL NL 139  495   63  155  17 15   6   65  17     40  63  .313  .369  .444  150  220  11           4    
 1917 21 STL NL 145  523   86  171  24 17   8   66  17     45  34  .327  .385  .484  169  253  17           4    
 1918 22 STL NL 115  416   51  117  19 11   5   60   8     40  43  .281  .349  .416  136  173   7           3    
 1919 23 STL NL 138  512   68  163  15  9   8   71  17     48  41  .318  .384  .430  151  220  10           7    
 1920 24 STL NL 149  589   96  218  44 20   9   94  12 15  60  50  .370  .431  .559  187  329   8           3    
 1921 25 STL NL 154  592  131  235  44 18  21  126  13 13  60  48  .397  .458  .639  190  378  15           7    
 1922 26 STL NL 154  623  141  250  46 14  42  152  17 12  65  50  .401  .459  .722  207  450  15           1    
 1923 27 STL NL 107  424   89  163  32 10  17   83   3  7  55  29  .384  .459  .627  186  266   5           3    
 1924 28 STL NL 143  536  121  227  43 14  25   94   5 12  89  32  .424  .507  .696  222  373  13           2     MVP-2
 1925 29 STL NL 138  504  133  203  41 10  39  143   5  3  83  39  .403  .489  .756  210  381  16           2     MVP-1
 1926 30 STL NL 134  527   96  167  34  5  11   93   3     61  39  .317  .388  .463  124  244  16           0     MVP-18
 1927 31 NYG NL 155  568  133  205  32  9  26  125   9     86  38  .361  .448  .586  175  333  26           4     MVP-3
 1928 32 BSN NL 140  486   99  188  42  7  21   94   5    107  41  .387  .498  .632  200  307  25           1     MVP-13
 1929 33 CHC NL 156  602  156  229  47  8  39  149   2     87  65  .380  .459  .679  178  409  22           1     MVP-1
 1930 34 CHC NL  42  104   15   32   5  1   2   18   0     12  12  .308  .385  .433   96   45   3           1    
 1931 35 CHC NL 100  357   64  118  37  1  16   90   1     56  23  .331  .421  .574  163  205   5           0    
 1932 36 CHC NL  19   58   10   13   2  0   1    7   0     10   4  .224  .357  .310   82   18   0           2    
 1933 37 TOT     57   92   11   30   7  0   3   23   1  0  14   7  .326  .426  .500  156   46   0           2   3
         STL NL  46   83    9   27   6  0   2   21   1     12   6  .325  .423  .470  149   39   0           2   3
         SLB AL  11    9    2    3   1  0   1    2   0  0   2   1  .333  .455  .778  214    7   0           0    
 1934 38 SLB AL  24   23    2    7   2  0   1   11   0  0   7   4  .304  .484  .522  151   12   0           1    
 1935 39 SLB AL  10   24    1    5   3  0   0    3   0  0   3   6  .208  .296  .333   59    8   0           0    
 1936 40 SLB AL   2    5    1    2   0  0   0    2   0  0   1   0  .400  .500  .400  122    2   0           0    
 1937 41 SLB AL  20   56    7   18   3  0   1   11   0  0   7   5  .321  .397  .429  107   24   0           0    
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 23 Seasons         8173      2930    169     1584     64     679  .358  .434  .577  175      216   0   0  48   3
               2259      1579      541    301      135   1038                            4712
+--------------+---+----+----+----+---+--+---+----+---+--+---+---+-----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+---+---+
 162 Game Avg        586  113  210  39 12  22  114  10  5  74  49  .358  .434  .577  175  338  15   0   0   3   0
 Career High    156  623  156  250  47 20  42  152  17 15 107  65  .424  .507  .756  222  450  26   0   0   7   3

maddash · Post by **maddash** » March 8 07, 10:19 am

Tough one. Aaron was the model of consistency, Hornsby had a 10 year peak better than anyone not named Ruth or Williams.

Using the 'Jim' method:

Lifetime/Peak/Seasons over 10
Aaron: 209.7/13.1/13
Hornsby: 163.5/15.8/8

Obviously, over the course of their careers, Aaron beats Hornsby easily. Although we do see that Hornsby bested Aaron's peak of 13.1 four times.

A few more stats:

Lifetime OPS+/EQA/"RC/27"
Aaron: 155/.326/7.65
Hornsby: 175/.335/10.10

Aaron has the HR title (for now), Hornsby was the greatest right handed hitter ever (two time Triple Crown winner and hit over .400 three times)

Hornsby shines when it comes to percentages, but Aaron did it longer than just about anyone. Pretty much comes down to what you prefer: peak vs longevity. Personally, I'm going with Hornsby.

Post by **Radbird** » March 8 07, 1:29 pm

Thanks for the numbers, mad. I'm going with Rajah also, based on his peaks, his records (.424, .358, MVPs, Triple Crowns), and the fact that he also managed a WC team. And he did it as a 2Bman.

jim · Post by **jim** » March 8 07, 2:12 pm

Aaron was my initial hunch, and I was going to vote until I saw how close it was. I started at the WARP3 stats to see where they were.

(Lifetime/Peak/Seasons over 10)
Aaron: 209.7/13.0/13
Hornsby: 163.5/15.8/8

Hornsby had the more dominant years, but I don't see how you get past the consistent domination of Aaron, not to mention some of his counting stats.

Aaron all the way.

JL21 · Post by **JL21** » March 8 07, 4:31 pm

jim wrote:Hornsby had the more dominant years, but I don't see how you get past the consistent domination of Aaron, not to mention some of his counting stats.

Aaron all the way.

I also couldn't get around that. I'm finding out that I tend to be more of a longevity guy when it comes to hitters, though I'm more of a peak guy with pitchers. Or at least, I'm more forgiving of pitchers whose strength is their peak.

jim · Post by **jim** » March 8 07, 8:27 pm

RC21 wrote:
jim wrote:Hornsby had the more dominant years, but I don't see how you get past the consistent domination of Aaron, not to mention some of his counting stats.

Aaron all the way.
I also couldn't get around that. I'm finding out that I tend to be more of a longevity guy when it comes to hitters, though I'm more of a peak guy with pitchers. Or at least, I'm more forgiving of pitchers whose strength is their peak.

Yeah, I'm kind of like that too. I have to see dominance from a hitter, which Aaron clearly had but not the individual seasons that Hornsby had. With Aaron it's just year after year after year.

Wekse5 · Post by **Wekse5** » March 11 07, 8:12 am

vance · Post by **vance** » March 11 07, 1:12 pm

The Hammer...no doubt about it.

G. Keenan · Post by **G. Keenan** » March 11 07, 4:01 pm

I voted Aaron, but I don't feel 100% like it was the right vote. Hornsby was amazing. For me Aaron got a boost in greatness for breaking Ruth's record, one of the great moments in baseball history.

jim · Post by **jim** » March 11 07, 7:39 pm

maddash wrote:Tough one. Aaron was the model of consistency, Hornsby had a 10 year peak better than anyone not named Ruth or Williams.

Using the 'Jim' method:

I missed that first time through. You have gone to the dark side.

GatewayRedbirds.com

Sweet 16: #2 Hank Aaron vs #3 Rogers Hornsby

Aaron or Hornsby?

Sweet 16: #2 Hank Aaron vs #3 Rogers Hornsby