Cards decline options on Lynn, Gibson, Middleton

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Re: Cards decline options on Lynn, Gibson, Middleton

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We're about to sign 2025's Kip Wells.

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Re: Cards decline options on Lynn, Gibson, Middleton

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thankfully, haltz' work still lives
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Popeye_Card
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Re: Cards decline options on Lynn, Gibson, Middleton

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I think it would have made more sense to hang on to Gibson or Lynn, and trade Fedde for whatever decent prospect you could get for him. The difference in salary is negligible (factoring in the buyouts). The difference in performance doesn't matter to the outcome of the 2025 season. At least get something in return.

They probably plan to trade Fedde anyway, but if they keep him I'll be scratching my head over this.

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Re: Cards decline options on Lynn, Gibson, Middleton

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dmarx114 wrote:
October 31 24, 2:01 pm
Lesson wrote:
October 31 24, 1:55 pm
dmarx114 wrote:
October 31 24, 1:01 pm
MrCrowesGarden wrote:
October 31 24, 10:37 am
Oh we gonna be BAD bad
How will we ever figure out a way to replace these 1-WAR pitchers?
The issue isn’t declining their options.

The issue is there really isn’t anyone in the minors who should be counted on to pitch every fifth day without jeopardizing their development and the current starters under contract all have substantial health concerns and ability to go 5-6 innings aside from Fedde.
I agree with that, and it's not like the plan is to have Hence and Matthews make 30 starts each.

But someone else will be picked up to eat innings, and that person won't be much worse than Lynn or Gibson. Replacing 287 innings of 2.8 (f)war isn't a big drop.
FO had an issue not with paying Gibson $11 million, they had an issue with how much $$$ is overall invested in the rotation if they picked his option up.

Which I find very challenging they’d find someone at similar caliber at less than $11 million that will be available in FA.

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Re: Cards decline options on Lynn, Gibson, Middleton

Post by Lesson »

Popeye_Card wrote:
October 31 24, 3:13 pm
I think it would have made more sense to hang on to Gibson or Lynn, and trade Fedde for whatever decent prospect you could get for him. The difference in salary is negligible (factoring in the buyouts). The difference in performance doesn't matter to the outcome of the 2025 season. At least get something in return.

They probably plan to trade Fedde anyway, but if they keep him I'll be scratching my head over this.
Keeping Fedde only makes sense if the plan is to extend him for the foreseeable future, which I’m not sure is likely given they were not going to extend Edman at similar $.

I agree that the difference in performance doesn’t matter for 2025. FO has already said they’re cutting payroll and doesn’t care if they lose in 2025.

The issue becomes that you still need guys out there eating innings to finish games otherwise you risk rushing players who aren’t close to being ready and hurting their development.

For that reason, I’d get rid of every reliever on the team that has more than one year of team control as well as Helsey and build the entire BP out of guys on 1 year deals. That way the [expletive] show of a rotation doesn’t impact younger pitchers, there’s no long term commitment to relievers, and those who perform well can be traded at the deadline.

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Re: Cards decline options on Lynn, Gibson, Middleton

Post by dmarx114 »

Lesson wrote:
October 31 24, 3:29 pm
dmarx114 wrote:
October 31 24, 2:01 pm
Lesson wrote:
October 31 24, 1:55 pm
dmarx114 wrote:
October 31 24, 1:01 pm
MrCrowesGarden wrote:
October 31 24, 10:37 am
Oh we gonna be BAD bad
How will we ever figure out a way to replace these 1-WAR pitchers?
The issue isn’t declining their options.

The issue is there really isn’t anyone in the minors who should be counted on to pitch every fifth day without jeopardizing their development and the current starters under contract all have substantial health concerns and ability to go 5-6 innings aside from Fedde.
I agree with that, and it's not like the plan is to have Hence and Matthews make 30 starts each.

But someone else will be picked up to eat innings, and that person won't be much worse than Lynn or Gibson. Replacing 287 innings of 2.8 (f)war isn't a big drop.
FO had an issue not with paying Gibson $11 million, they had an issue with how much $$$ is overall invested in the rotation if they picked his option up.

Which I find very challenging they’d find someone at similar caliber at less than $11 million that will be available in FA.
I get it, but I won't be losing any sleep over not having Kyle Gibson and his 1.5 WAR on the team next year. So we win 67 games instead of 69.

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Fan_In_NY
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Re: Cards decline options on Lynn, Gibson, Middleton

Post by Fan_In_NY »

dmarx114 wrote:
October 31 24, 4:16 pm
Lesson wrote:
October 31 24, 3:29 pm
dmarx114 wrote:
October 31 24, 2:01 pm
Lesson wrote:
October 31 24, 1:55 pm
dmarx114 wrote:
October 31 24, 1:01 pm


How will we ever figure out a way to replace these 1-WAR pitchers?
The issue isn’t declining their options.

The issue is there really isn’t anyone in the minors who should be counted on to pitch every fifth day without jeopardizing their development and the current starters under contract all have substantial health concerns and ability to go 5-6 innings aside from Fedde.
I agree with that, and it's not like the plan is to have Hence and Matthews make 30 starts each.

But someone else will be picked up to eat innings, and that person won't be much worse than Lynn or Gibson. Replacing 287 innings of 2.8 (f)war isn't a big drop.
FO had an issue not with paying Gibson $11 million, they had an issue with how much $$$ is overall invested in the rotation if they picked his option up.

Which I find very challenging they’d find someone at similar caliber at less than $11 million that will be available in FA.
I get it, but I won't be losing any sleep over not having Kyle Gibson and his 1.5 WAR on the team next year. So we win 67 games instead of 69.
I agree that the difference between Gibson and another pitcher is likely 1-3 wins on a team where wins seemingly won't matter. But there is an aspect of having to fill a number of innings at the major league level - and not putting younger pitchers in situations where they having their development hampered. No pitching staff makes it through a season with 6 or even 7 starters. So my concern is that that 8th or 9th starter (and maybe 6th and 7th) that the Cards are going to need to use next year is better off at AAA or developing in the MLB bullpen than getting beaten around in a major league rotation. Also the starters aren't pitching as deep in the games so the young relievers are pitching more innings and on less rest than they ideally should be. I thought that cash investment in Gibson (who from all reports was very well admired in the clubhouse) was very very low - and it was only cash - and allows for a little more deliberate player development.

The other option would have been paying 60-70% of that salary and trading GIbson for a teams #7-15 prospect at the deadline - I would imagine that Gibson would have gotten something in the Kikuchi/Frankie Montas level package. Instead they likely saved $5-6M that I'm sure (sarcastically) will be spent of 20 new coaches in the minor leagues and a sports academy upgrade in the Caribbean.

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Re: Cards decline options on Lynn, Gibson, Middleton

Post by sighyoung »

heyzeus wrote:
October 31 24, 2:27 pm
We're about to sign 2025's Kip Wells.
Aren't the mediocre entitled to a little representation

--Richard M. Nixon
Last edited by sighyoung on October 31 24, 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cards decline options on Lynn, Gibson, Middleton

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I will miss their combined bus.

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sighyoung
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Re: Cards decline options on Lynn, Gibson, Middleton

Post by sighyoung »

CardsofSTL wrote:
October 31 24, 6:24 pm
I will miss their combined bus.
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