Former Cardinals Watch

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

Jocephus wrote:
June 16 22, 12:47 pm
Big Amoco Sign wrote:
June 16 22, 11:29 am

I missed this. I did say it once. Then you replied. And replied again. You can't post that my take is bad (attacking poster over post at that--thought was a forum no-no), then a follow up post clarifying, then you pretend to be astounded when responded to in a manner that makes it sound like I'm repeating myself. I have to repeat myself because you keep saying I'm defending Tommy's slapping, and I clearly never did. Not even sure I responded to it the first time it happened? For someone who says "[expletive] everyone who consumes this" you had to comment on it multiple times in multiple threads. One could say, you're "forcing" your opinion.
that comment was referring to other things you repeat ad nauseam (tlr bad, what stats one should *really* look at, how players should act on the field, many others since you arrived).

even if you are trying to pin this on me, i merely replied to your comments. Am I nOt AlLoWeD tO dO tHaT??? saying a post is bad is not attacking the poster, you've done it plenty of times. no need to make up my feelings on how or why i responded to your statements.

i accepted you said slap bad but you keep going in circles still defending pham. i responded to that. i didn't/don't buy your attempts to soften phams image. i admit, i consumed your [expletive] too much, thats on me.

i did not force you to say anything. you can GTFO with that charge.
I am talking about consumption of the Pham topic. You keep consuming it. I guess re: replying I'm talking about the personal attacks littered in your posts. "merely" is not the right description there. And re: made up feelings, that's so [expletive] rich from you.

TLR bad stuff came up because he's in the news again. Much like this Pham thing. Weird how that works. TLR continues to be bad so I comment on it when it happens. It's himself as a topic that's making it seem like repeat. But I will concede that you clarified that point. You are still forcing your opinion too. You're doing the thing you don't like me doing.

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Jocephus
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

Post by Jocephus »

im consuming the pham topic because your take is absurd (edit: maybe absurd is "offensive" so if it is, use baffling). one could say you are forcing me to reply. (See what i did there?). im fine with discontinuing the conversation.

i do have a question on TLR since he has been brought up.

you often spar with dmarx about mo's bad off season acquisitions, the bullpen in particular this year. many times you have said that TLR only won because he had good players. doesn't the fact you feel oli needs better players too completely contradict your argument on TLR? you acknowledge that oli needs better players to help him win, so why does oli get that benefit but tony doesnt?

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

Jocephus wrote:
June 16 22, 1:02 pm
you often spar with dmarx about mo's bad off season acquisitions, the bullpen in particular this year. many times you have said that TLR only won because he had good players. doesn't the fact you feel oli needs better players too completely contradict your argument on TLR? you acknowledge that oli needs better players to help him win, so why does oli get that benefit but tony doesnt?
To begin, TLR had more influence on the roster. I mean the Scott Rolen trade proved that. Oli is benefiting from a pretty good roster. But the pieces Mo obtained in the offseason are not why. Mo should be credited for the assembly of the offense--and the development of the players, if he influenced that in a way beyond hiring the right scouting guys, Jeff Albert coaching move, and criticized for his mistakes. And heavily so as he has never proven he can acquire good bullpen answers outside of outliers like the Norris season and Luis Garcia in a stretch run. In over a decade. Mo unwilling to sign premier talent and getting it only via trade is maddening too. Nitpicky cost-saving things that sometimes don't even save them money.

Sure you need good players to win. But I'm speaking to things like the idiotic walk call before a home run. Bad process compounded by bad results stuff. And his non-defense of a player (Yermin) in that Twins game. In game decisions by TLR are incredibly questionable this year. With Oli, I'll concede maybe a pitcher being in longer than necessary in a game or two. But the lineups and overall results are proving he's doing well. TLR has bad lineups this year. (Leury Garcia stuff) Other things I disliked about Tony were more off the field comments. Specifically unwritten rules and Ron Gant/Ozzie Smith type stuff. Even letting the Rasmus situation get so bad was unbecoming.
Last edited by Big Amoco Sign on June 16 22, 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jocephus
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

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let me be clear, i acknowledge that as your reply. doesn't really make sense to me as far as my actual question but i accept that is what you chose to reply with.

and not that it matters but i wasnt speaking soley to this recent play that tony got wrong. TLR was brought up because of this play, yes, but it allowed you to comment on TLRs whole career saying he only won 'cause of good players, which is what spurned my question because, in my head, yeah, a successful manager is likely going to have good players. not sure why tony doesn't get that accepted fact, other than your dislike for him, which im assuming is the main reason you say something hyperbolic like that....which then, to me, sounds odd when you say oli needs better players to help win games.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

Jocephus wrote:
June 16 22, 1:32 pm
let me be clear, i acknowledge that as your reply. doesn't really make sense to me as far as my actual question but i accept that is what you chose to reply with.

and not that it matters but i wasnt speaking soley to this recent play that tony got wrong. TLR was brought up because of this play, yes, but it allowed you to comment on TLRs whole career saying he only won 'cause of good players, which is what spurned my question because, in my head, yeah, a successful manager is likely going to have good players. not sure why tony doesn't get that accepted fact, other than your dislike for him, which im assuming is the main reason you say something hyperbolic like that....which then, to me, sounds odd when you say oli needs better players to help win games.
I'm looking at what is in control of those managers. Oli's doing well with the things in his control. TLR is not doing well with the things in his control.

Good players are a foundation to winning, for sure. Mattingly with Dodgers/Marlins dichotomy proves that. I hope I never sounded like I was suggesting that. But Tony had great players and didn't get the team over the hump. And a lot of times it was due to crucial decisions. Tony has an insanely good roster right now. But a losing record. You could point directly to WPA/LI stat (https://tht.fangraphs.com/using-wpa-to- ... -part-two/) and the Sox ranking 25th in that as influenced by his pen decisions.

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Jocephus
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

Post by Jocephus »

well, this too has run its course but i will say, i agree that TLR was hired because of his friendship with reinsdorf and he's likely past his prime but you're way too focused on this 2nd White Sox tour when my question is more about how/why you throw TLR's career down the [expletive] 'cause he usually had good players on his team. there are things about tony i dont like either but it just comes off as a cheap shot, on his career as a whole.

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

Post by CardsofSTL »

My power was out for two days. I felt bad.

Now my power is back on. I felt good.

Then I read the last billion posts on this thread. I feel bad again.

@Big Amoco Sign and @Jocephus

Chill the [expletive] out.

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

Post by CardsofSTL »

Jocephus wrote:
June 16 22, 11:06 am
Big Amoco Sign wrote:
June 16 22, 10:52 am
I actually borrowed "Smart move" from CardsOfStl when he says that to people who say some variant "okay I'm done arguing this" are going off topic in GDTs.
you are no CardsOfStl

You got that [expletive] right

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JoeMcKim
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

Post by JoeMcKim »

In the new MLB Hitter Power Rankings, Matt Carpenter is #9. What world are we living in?

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JoeMcKim
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

Post by JoeMcKim »

Ali Sanchez got claimed by the Tigers, he's officially a former Cardinal now.

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