Former Cardinals Watch

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slide_into_first
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

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I did not spend my life as a Cardinal fan to have to suffer bad trade results.

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Jmodene
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

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The only way to avoid making a bad trade is to never make a trade at all.

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obucard
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

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Hungary Jack wrote:Is anybody even watching Carlton, Mulder or that wildebeest chick anymore?

Let's move along people.
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Hungary Jack
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

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obucard wrote:
Hungary Jack wrote:Is anybody even watching Carlton, Mulder or that wildebeest chick anymore?

Let's move along people.
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I think he is celebrating the Bob Sykes - Willie McGee trade.

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Jmodene
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

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Although, don't forget, Steinbrenner blackmailed old Gussie into giving him Stan Javier and Bobby Meacham to make up for it, in exchange for his vote to oust Bowie Kuhn. Even then, it worked out, as one of the token players we got in the attempt to make it look like a real trade was Marty Mason.

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Hungary Jack
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

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Jmodene wrote:Although, don't forget, Steinbrenner blackmailed old Gussie into giving him Stan Javier and Bobby Meacham to make up for it, in exchange for his vote to oust Bowie Kuhn. Even then, it worked out, as one of the token players we got in the attempt to make it look like a real trade was Marty Mason.
Losing Stan Javier and Bobby Meacham in a trade is like losing a bologna sandwich.

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Jmodene
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

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Hungary Jack wrote:
Jmodene wrote:Although, don't forget, Steinbrenner blackmailed old Gussie into giving him Stan Javier and Bobby Meacham to make up for it, in exchange for his vote to oust Bowie Kuhn. Even then, it worked out, as one of the token players we got in the attempt to make it look like a real trade was Marty Mason.
Losing Stan Javier and Bobby Meacham in a trade is like losing a bologna sandwich.

Meacham didn't amount to a whole lot, true, but Stan had a pretty decent career. But it's not so much what we lost as the way we lost it that annoyed me - not to mention the rewriting-of-history that occurred thereafter to avoid painting Gussie in a bad light (including in Herzog's books).

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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

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I know nothing of that story, but I don't doubt it. Can you enlighten us as to why Steinbrenner blackmailed Augie?

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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

Post by ilstu24 »

We can add another to the now former Cardinal list.

Adam Ottavino has been claimed by the Colorado Rockies. Immediately optioned to AAA Colorado Springs. Curious to see if they continue trying to use him out of the pen or insert him back to the rotation.

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Jmodene
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Re: Former Cardinals Watch

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Hungary Jack wrote:I know nothing of that story, but I don't doubt it. Can you enlighten us as to why Steinbrenner blackmailed Augie?
At the time, old Gussie was working behind the scenes to oust Bowie Kuhn. He'd been out to get Bowie ever since Kuhn lifted the lockout the owners had imposed in Spring Training the year after Peter Seitz ruled in favor of Messersmith/McNally, freeing the players to become free agents (the owners had previously held players to their teams in perpetuum by citing the "Reserve Clause").

Gussie was among the hard-liners who hoped that locking the players out of ST could break the union and force the players to give up the free agent rights they had just won in arbitration.

Kuhn, who was an attorney, saw this as illegal and ordered the ST camps opened - and Gussie never forgot it.

When Kuhn's contract was finally coming up for renewal a few years later, his opponents, led by Gussie, only needed a few votes in each league as a contract renewal required, I think, 75% of the owners in each individual league. Steinbrenner's was the fourth AL vote Gussie needed to keep Bowie from getting his 75% in the junior circuit (I believe five NL teams voted against Kuhn).

Steinbrenner was already embarrassed about the Cards' having fleeced the Yankees so badly on Sykes-for-McGee (the Yankees had taken Willie off their 40-man roster during the winter of 1981/82 when they signed Dave Collins or Dave Winfield - I forget which) which meant that Willie was subject to Rule 5. The Cards offered the Yankees Sykes so they'd get at least something for McGee, who was sure to be chosen in Rule 5. Sykes, of course, never pitched an inning for the Yankees, and Steinbrenner was fit to be tied.

So, when Gussie came a-courting for Steinbrenner's vote, ol' George basically told him he'd have to have some more players to make up for the McGee deal - Gussie went back and had John McDonald work out a deal where we'd give them two top prospects - Javier and Meacham - for three nondescript minor-leaguers - Steve Fincher, Bob Helsom, and Marty Mason.

It was a terribly one-sided deal, although Mason did wind up a longtime Cardinal with his work as a coach in the minors and majors. But Gussie got the vote that he needed from Steinbrenner and Bowie's fate was sealed. This despite the fact that he got 15 out of 24 votes in *favor* of keeping him.

(Peter O'Malley, who was a Kuhn supporter, was so incensed by Gussie's machinations that he cancelled the sale of Budweiser at Dodger Stadium in protest.)

Now, all this was bad enough, but as I say, the re-writing of history annoys my journalistic instincts. Herzog, for instance, in his 1999 book, says that the Cards had agreed *at the time of the McGee deal* that we would give them more players if McGee turned out to be any good.

You have to know that Herzog and Steinbrenner were friends - although Whitey often said, including in the book, that he probably wouldn't have been able to handle *working* for George - so his motive in trying not to make Steinbrenner look like a fool, and a malleable one at that, is understandable. It's still annoying.

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