Horrible umpires

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Kincaid
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Re: Horrible umpires

Post by Kincaid »

Machado didn't signal for time before the clock hit 8 seconds:
[SHOW]
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[SHOW]
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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Horrible umpires

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The hand is up at 8 second mark.

8 is still on the screen. You should rewind your gif a couple frames sooner.

I realize you said “before” but read his lips before that mark. Hand comes up because Ump isn’t granting.
Does the batter have any time-outs?
Yes. One per plate appearance. Otherwise, the batter must be in the batter’s box and alert to the pitcher with at least eight seconds remaining on the timer.
Now is it close? Sure. Arbitrary sub-seconds even? Yes, maybe. Doesn’t change the fact that umps should toss an arguably best player in NL over it. I’d say frustration warranted. Marsh cursed an ump. Carpenter too. With no ejections so why is Machado ejected?

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Joe Shlabotnik
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Re: Horrible umpires

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Big Amoco Sign wrote:
April 4 23, 7:01 pm
Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
April 4 23, 3:15 pm
Because the umpire didn't grant time. The rule is a player can ASK, the umpire MAY grant the request. No player can assume their request will be granted. I've had that conversation with many a coach.
No offense but that’s not the rule in MLB. https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-new-rules-for-2023-faq

I deleted the post because I saw Machado use the magic word so that’s why he was tossed. I didn’t see that before. Still stupid that they’re so soft. Best player in the NL gets tossed? Ump show.

The umps HAVE to grant time. The rule states they get one per AB. No reason to defend them.
That is not correct. The rule about requesting and granting time has not changed. Relevant rules from the 2023 Official Baseball Rules:
5.04(b)(2): The batter shall not leave his position in the batter’s box after the pitcher comes to Set Position, or starts his windup.
Comment to 5.04(b)(2): Umpires will not call “Time” at the request of the batter or any member of his team once the pitcher has started his windup or has come to a set position even though the batter claims “dust in his eyes,” “steamed glasses,” “didn’t get the sign” or for any other cause.

Umpires may grant a hitter’s request for “Time” once he is in the batter’s box, but the umpire should eliminate hitters walking out of the batter’s box without reason.
5.04(b)(4)(A)   The batter shall keep at least one foot in the batter’s box throughout the batter’s time at bat, unless one of the following exceptions applies, in which case the batter may leave the batter’s box but not the dirt area surrounding home plate:
(iv) A member of either team requests and is granted “Time”;
Note the bolded parts. Umpires are never, ever required to grant Time at the request of a player. True in all playing codes I am aware of.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Horrible umpires

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Comment is not rule though. That’s a comment. The link I posted is literally from MLB. They get one times per PA. And get to use it. It’s a new rule.

The “granted” comment is relevant to “member of either team” like a random player and less so to the batter.

They just discussed this last night on MLB Big Inning.
Last edited by Big Amoco Sign on April 5 23, 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Transmogrified Tiger
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Re: Horrible umpires

Post by Transmogrified Tiger »

Umpires have a buzzer that goes off at 8 seconds so while it's not completely black and white, if the ask comes after that point it's less arbitrary. He lets Machado argue(including touching/poking him several times) for 15 seconds before ejecting him, doesn't get in Machado's face, even physically motions like 'sorry that's the rule' in an attempt to not escalate. I'm not aware if he was obligated to eject Machado(my guess is there's league instruction that once you're purely arguing the decision instead of clarifying the rules, it's like balls and strikes and you're done), but even if he wasn't Machado was the person responsible for the situation in every way. Not an ump show moment at all.

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Joe Shlabotnik
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Re: Horrible umpires

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Big Amoco Sign wrote:
April 5 23, 9:03 am
Comment is not rule though. That’s a comment. The link I posted is literally from MLB. They get one times per PA. And get to use it. It’s a new rule.
Believe me - rule book comment IS rule. You need to get better informed of how OBR rules are taught and enforced.

There are also published interpretations of the rules not in the official rule book that umpires at that level are expected to know. These interpretations also have the same weight as the OBR.

You don't know what you are talking about. An umpire NEVER has to grant a request for time. The new rule is that a batter can only be granted time once per at bat. How time is granted has not changed.

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Re: Horrible umpires

Post by Joe Shlabotnik »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:
April 5 23, 9:03 am
Comment is not rule though. That’s a comment. The link I posted is literally from MLB. They get one times per PA. And get to use it. It’s a new rule.

They just discussed this last night on MLB Big Inning.
Dude - if I had a dollar for every time commentators got the rules wrong, I'd be very rich. You want good discussion of the rules by those who have to know them and enforce them, go to Close Call Sports or Umpire-Empire. Get educated.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Horrible umpires

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I understand everything you’re saying pre-2023. Is the “grant” comment relevant to batter or just when random players on either team call times? Your rulebook quote seems to be talking about fielders/pitcher/both team’s players generally. It makes no sense to make a big fuss about having one timeout per PA if ump can spit on it.

This is Ump Show still because he got tossed for being pissed and saying “d-bag” to the ump. Which is warranted, so even though he called times before 8 seconds, tossing is also bad here. You had way worse language said by Arroyo yesterday and ump didn’t toss him.

Yes let’s toss the game’s star players because of feelings. Great product.

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Re: Horrible umpires

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Big Amoco Sign wrote:
April 5 23, 9:19 am
I understand everything you’re saying pre-2023. Is the “grant” comment relevant to batter or just when random players on either team call times? Your rulebook quote seems to be talking about fielders/pitcher/both team’s players generally. It makes no sense to make a big fuss about having one timeout per PA if ump can spit on it.

This is Ump Show still because he got tossed for being pissed and saying “d-bag” to the ump. Which is warranted, so even though he called times before 8 seconds, tossing is also bad here. You had way worse language said by Arroyo yesterday and ump didn’t toss him.

Yes let’s toss the game’s star players because of feelings. Great product.
The rule for requesting and granting of time is the same for all players and coaches. Players and coaches request, umpires decide to grant or not grant. I believe if you think about it for very long, you will see why it needs to be that way. Example: yesterday TON lollygags his way down to home, out by a mile. He sees this, turns to the nearest umpire and shouts "Time Blue!". If the umpires were required to grant time, you have a universal Get Out of Jail Free card. It would be chaos.

Umpires are paid to know the rules and enforce them equitably and at all times. Sometimes that happens at a time when it greatly impacts the game (Hello Allan Craig / Jim Joyce). You want to call that the Ump Show, knock yourself out.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Horrible umpires

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
April 5 23, 9:57 am
Big Amoco Sign wrote:
April 5 23, 9:19 am
I understand everything you’re saying pre-2023. Is the “grant” comment relevant to batter or just when random players on either team call times? Your rulebook quote seems to be talking about fielders/pitcher/both team’s players generally. It makes no sense to make a big fuss about having one timeout per PA if ump can spit on it.

This is Ump Show still because he got tossed for being pissed and saying “d-bag” to the ump. Which is warranted, so even though he called times before 8 seconds, tossing is also bad here. You had way worse language said by Arroyo yesterday and ump didn’t toss him.

Yes let’s toss the game’s star players because of feelings. Great product.
The rule for requesting and granting of time is the same for all players and coaches. Players and coaches request, umpires decide to grant or not grant. I believe if you think about it for very long, you will see why it needs to be that way. Example: yesterday TON lollygags his way down to home, out by a mile. He sees this, turns to the nearest umpire and shouts "Time Blue!". If the umpires were required to grant time, you have a universal Get Out of Jail Free card. It would be chaos.

Umpires are paid to know the rules and enforce them equitably and at all times. Sometimes that happens at a time when it greatly impacts the game (Hello Allan Craig / Jim Joyce). You want to call that the Ump Show, knock yourself out.
You're not being fair to what I said.

The requirement is of the batters per new rule of having one times per PA. The other players and situations, yes, remain as they have been. There's a clear difference. There's "grant" for non-batter-one-call-per-PA type times. And requirement for the other. Your other commentary bringing up Allen Craig etc. is irrelevant.

Ump Show comment is regarding the post-ruling ejection (literally told Melvin he was mad about "d bag" being said). So please compartmentalize these things.
Last edited by Big Amoco Sign on April 5 23, 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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