Horrible umpires

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Birdfan57
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Re: Horrible umpires

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Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
May 22 22, 11:03 am
Big Amoco Sign wrote:
May 22 22, 9:46 am
Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
May 22 22, 9:44 am
Why is that not a swing? He loaded, unloaded, and then ducked. He certainly went around. That doesn't look horrible to me.
It was him falling that made it go around? Every batter loads up. There’s no way that’s a swing, IMO. The bat was always behind him. People don’t usually swing by turning torso 180 degrees.

Intent man. He was avoiding the pitch hitting his head.

Plus it needed an appeal so one umps weren’t even in agreement. That’s pretty bad IMO. The rule even allows wiggle room and judgement call here and umps [expletive] up.

MLB has a problem when this is the only vibrant part of the sport sometimes.
What I see from the 1B line camera angle is he starts forward with a swing and then bails. In real time, I might say no swing because of the high and tight nature of the pitch he wanted to avoid. But I also see the start of a swing, for sure. I don't think it's a horrible judgement.
I was watching this game last night on the Angels broadcast. Lead announcer said technically it's a strike due to the bat crossing the plate. Color analyst and former pitcher Mark Gubicza said there was no intent to swing, the hitter was twisting to avoid being hit. I agree with Gubicza, he was just trying to get out of the way. Another in a long line of horrible umpire calls.

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Popeye_Card
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Re: Horrible umpires

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By the rulebook, it is a swing. It sucks, but it is what it is. No different than when the ball runs in and hits off the knob of the bat - foul ball, despite not swinging.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Horrible umpires

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Popeye_Card wrote:
May 22 22, 6:23 pm
By the rulebook, it is a swing. It sucks, but it is what it is. No different than when the ball runs in and hits off the knob of the bat - foul ball, despite not swinging.
See that’s the thing, rules allow for judgement on this. So it’s not a hard rule. Intent was obvious.

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Kincaid
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Re: Horrible umpires

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Birdfan57 wrote:
May 22 22, 3:57 pm
I was watching this game last night on the Angels broadcast. Lead announcer said technically it's a strike due to the bat crossing the plate.
There is nothing in the rulebook that defines a swing or a strike in this way. The rules are pretty vague about what constitutes a swing and just leave it up to the ump's judgment.

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Joe Shlabotnik
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Re: Horrible umpires

Post by Joe Shlabotnik »

Kincaid wrote:
May 22 22, 9:56 pm
Birdfan57 wrote:
May 22 22, 3:57 pm
I was watching this game last night on the Angels broadcast. Lead announcer said technically it's a strike due to the bat crossing the plate.
There is nothing in the rulebook that defines a swing or a strike in this way. The rules are pretty vague about what constitutes a swing and just leave it up to the ump's judgment.
Very true. Both OBR or NFHS (high school) rule books have sections where the terms used in the game are defined. 'Swing' is in neither! So it comes down to established norms which boil down to 1. intent to swing and 2. moving the bat far enough to consider it a swing. In this case, the intent is there - the batter loads and then begins moving the bat forward. The question is about 2 - did he begin to bail before or after committing? Judging that in real time is extremely difficult.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Horrible umpires

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The entire “did the swing go around” is a judgement. Nothing rule book about it. And in “real time” you clearly see a guy avoiding being killed by a pitch. Semantics of swing should be irrelevant from there. Andrus had avoided the pitch going forward instead of backwards, no one in the league swings at a pitch in that way, with his feet and torso like that.

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Joe Shlabotnik
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Re: Horrible umpires

Post by Joe Shlabotnik »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:
May 23 22, 9:14 am
The entire “did the swing go around” is a judgement. And in “real time” you clearly see a guy avoiding being killed by a pitch. Semantics of swing should be irrelevant from there.
I see a guy beginning to commit to a swing and then bailing with his bat going all the way round. We can agree to disagree.

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mikechamp
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Re: Horrible umpires

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Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
May 23 22, 9:16 am
I see a guy beginning to commit to a swing and then bailing with his bat going all the way round. We can agree to disagree.
That's what I saw as well. He didn't mean to swing, but his bat clearly broke the plane. At that point, it's a judgment call and the ump ruled against the batter.

But I also don't see this as the umps not agreeing. The home plate umpire did his job in asking for help, which he should have done (and they all should do more than they actually do). If he doesn't ask for help, then we're belly-aching because he made the call himself while also tracking the location of the pitch.

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Joe Shlabotnik
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Re: Horrible umpires

Post by Joe Shlabotnik »

mikechamp wrote:
May 23 22, 12:41 pm
But I also don't see this as the umps not agreeing. The home plate umpire did his job in asking for help, which he should have done (and they all should do more than they actually do). If he doesn't ask for help, then we're belly-aching because he made the call himself while also tracking the location of the pitch.[/color]
I believe in MLB the HP is required to get the help if asked now. They made that change a few years ago.

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Horrible umpires

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