Want to work for the Orioles?

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Farewell Friends
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Re: Want to work for the Orioles?

Post by Farewell Friends »

33anda3rd wrote:Elias and Sig don't have the starting point they had in STL or HOU. Beyond Rutschman they have no prospect ranked over 88 by FanGraphs on their Scouting + Stats board. They have no tradeable MLB assets. Villar was their best player at 4 fWAR and he's 29 next season. Including Villar's 4 fWAR the whole roster of position players combined for ony 6.4 fWAR. Their best P was worth 3 wins and their 4th best P was worth 0.9. Their best bullpen pitcher had an ERA over 5. Their pitching staff was worth 5.5 fWAR. They are remarkably bad.

Elias and Sig are also
-not in the NL Central pre-Theo/Jed
-not in the AL West in an era of awfulness in SEA and TEX and an Angels team hamstrung by bad contracts
OK. These things are true, but it also assumes that the Orioles will continue to bad in perpetuity and that everything that is true on October 20, 2019 will be true five years from now. If we assume that the Orioles will whiff on every top 5 pick, will whiff on every low-key free agent signing and will not develop a single player, then yes, nobody should want to work for them. But I highly doubt prospective candidates will avoid a job with the Orioles because Andy MacPhail was a bad GM a decade ago.

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sighyoung
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Re: Want to work for the Orioles?

Post by sighyoung »

Farewell Friends wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:Elias and Sig don't have the starting point they had in STL or HOU. Beyond Rutschman they have no prospect ranked over 88 by FanGraphs on their Scouting + Stats board. They have no tradeable MLB assets. Villar was their best player at 4 fWAR and he's 29 next season. Including Villar's 4 fWAR the whole roster of position players combined for ony 6.4 fWAR. Their best P was worth 3 wins and their 4th best P was worth 0.9. Their best bullpen pitcher had an ERA over 5. Their pitching staff was worth 5.5 fWAR. They are remarkably bad.

Elias and Sig are also
-not in the NL Central pre-Theo/Jed
-not in the AL West in an era of awfulness in SEA and TEX and an Angels team hamstrung by bad contracts
OK. These things are true, but it also assumes that the Orioles will continue to bad in perpetuity and that everything that is true on October 20, 2019 will be true five years from now. If we assume that the Orioles will whiff on every top 5 pick, will whiff on every low-key free agent signing and will not develop a single player, then yes, nobody should want to work for them. But I highly doubt prospective candidates will avoid a job with the Orioles because *Andy MacPhail was a bad GM a decade ago.
*Andy McFail, am I right?

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33anda3rd
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Re: Want to work for the Orioles?

Post by 33anda3rd »

Farewell Friends wrote:
33anda3rd wrote:Elias and Sig don't have the starting point they had in STL or HOU. Beyond Rutschman they have no prospect ranked over 88 by FanGraphs on their Scouting + Stats board. They have no tradeable MLB assets. Villar was their best player at 4 fWAR and he's 29 next season. Including Villar's 4 fWAR the whole roster of position players combined for ony 6.4 fWAR. Their best P was worth 3 wins and their 4th best P was worth 0.9. Their best bullpen pitcher had an ERA over 5. Their pitching staff was worth 5.5 fWAR. They are remarkably bad.

Elias and Sig are also
-not in the NL Central pre-Theo/Jed
-not in the AL West in an era of awfulness in SEA and TEX and an Angels team hamstrung by bad contracts
OK. These things are true, but it also assumes that the Orioles will continue to bad in perpetuity and that everything that is true on October 20, 2019 will be true five years from now. If we assume that the Orioles will whiff on every top 5 pick, will whiff on every low-key free agent signing and will not develop a single player, then yes, nobody should want to work for them. But I highly doubt prospective candidates will avoid a job with the Orioles because Andy MacPhail was a bad GM a decade ago.
It's been true for so long that the burden is on Elias and Sig to make it not true, the burden is not on me to not say that a demonstrably horrible sports franchise isn't so bad as their objectively horrible record. They're basically Trump: they had the world at their fingertips coming out of the strike, everything that could be teed up in their favor was and they spend two and a half decades blowing it.

Mdcardfan60
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Re: Want to work for the Orioles?

Post by Mdcardfan60 »

I’d call Mancini and Means tradable assets. Plus a ballpark where you can get a beer for $8 and crab cakes has to be worth something.

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Want to work for the Orioles?

Post by CardsofSTL »

I would work for the Orioles for.....

Image

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Radbird
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Re: Want to work for the Orioles?

Post by Radbird »

Sad state of affairs for a once-proud franchise.

The Orioles of my youth were so freaking good - they were my favorite AL team (having STL roots was a part of that.)

4 WS and 2 championships in 6 years (1966-72). Three straight WS appearances with 100+ win seasons from ‘69-‘71 (109/108/101).

Great defense and powerful offense with the Robinson brothers, Boog Powell, Luis Aparicio, Paul Blair, Davey Johnson, Curt Blefary, Mark Belanger, Don Buford.

On the mound with a rotation featuring Jim Palmer, Dave McNally, Mike Cuellar, Pat Dobson.

5 HoFers - Brooks Robinson, Frank Robinson, Luis Aparicio, Jim Palmer, Earl Weaver.

Amazing there was not a Cards-O’s World Series during that time. (Cards in ‘64/‘67/‘68; Orioles in ‘66/‘69/‘70/‘71)

I hope they can turn it around.

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sighyoung
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Re: Want to work for the Orioles?

Post by sighyoung »

Don't forget that Earl Weaver--like Dick Williams--was a grad of Beaumont High School, a stone's throw away from Sportsman's Park.

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33anda3rd
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Re: Want to work for the Orioles?

Post by 33anda3rd »

Mdcardfan60 wrote:I’d call Mancini and Means tradable assets. Plus a ballpark where you can get a beer for $8 and crab cakes has to be worth something.
I mean, Mancini will be 28 on opening day, he's a baserunning liability, a defensive liability, and his value is almost entirely tied to BABIP luck. If he gets a lot of BABIP luck he's league average at best and if he doesn't he's below replacement level. They can probably trade him for something, but not something that tangibly changes the team's future. As a team in need of a complete reboot of the org but especially an injection of talent into the minors, I was thinking about trade value more in terms of a player who could be flipped for a future 60 or better prospect or a pair of 50s. If they wanted to go to the table w/ the Dodgers for anything including Gavin Lux or Yusniel Diaz or Dustin May--basically making a deal with a team who keeps knocking on the door and missing and has the farm depth to part with a couple guys to win now--the O's wouldn't have anything that would make that trade happen. The Dodgers wouldn't take Villar or Mancini or Means whose pitching success is as luck dependent as Mancini's hitting success is. If they wanted to flip a player to a team like Tampa who covets productive players with multiple years of control left they're not going to get Wander Franco or Brendan McKay back, they might get someone like Libaratore or Baz who's a long ways away and by no means a sure thing. Yeah, they're tradable, but for what?

Agreed on the crab cakes and beer.

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Radbird
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Re: Want to work for the Orioles?

Post by Radbird »

sighyoung wrote:Don't forget that Earl Weaver--like Dick Williams--was a grad of Beaumont High School, a stone's throw away from Sportsman's Park.
Fun fact - Earl Weaver’s father owned the laundry company that did the uniforms for the Cards & Browns. My dad and uncle worked for him in high school (also Beaumont). Don’t know if they crossed paths with Earl - he was 6 years younger than my dad.

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st.lewis11
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Re: Want to work for the Orioles?

Post by st.lewis11 »

Radbird wrote:Sad state of affairs for a once-proud franchise.

The Orioles of my youth were so freaking good - they were my favorite AL team (having STL roots was a part of that.)

4 WS and 2 championships in 6 years (1966-72). Three straight WS appearances with 100+ win seasons from ‘69-‘71 (109/108/101).

Great defense and powerful offense with the Robinson brothers, Boog Powell, Luis Aparicio, Paul Blair, Davey Johnson, Curt Blefary, Mark Belanger, Don Buford.

On the mound with a rotation featuring Jim Palmer, Dave McNally, Mike Cuellar, Pat Dobson.

5 HoFers - Brooks Robinson, Frank Robinson, Luis Aparicio, Jim Palmer, Earl Weaver.

Amazing there was not a Cards-O’s World Series during that time. (Cards in ‘64/‘67/‘68; Orioles in ‘66/‘69/‘70/‘71)

I hope they can turn it around.
I had to look up Luis Aparicio on Baseball Reference, because I had only remembered him as a RedSox & WhiteSox. The Orioles I remembered always had Belanger at SS, but I then saw that Aparicio was more early to mid 60's.The years I was remembering on the Orioles basically started 1969 through the early 70's

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