video of Astros stealing signals(p.6 Crime and Punishment)

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tlombard
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Re: video of Astros stealing signals(p.6 Crime and Punishment)

Post by tlombard »

If I'm new to the Astros this season, I'm making sure that the opposing pitchers know that I wasn't around during the sign stealing once the beanings begins LOL.

AWvsCBsteeeerike3
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Re: video of Astros stealing signals(p.6 Crime and Punishment)

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

I mean, the entire thing is really interesting.

People that think the steroid users getting punished via HOF snubbing point out that previous players used drugs in the form of amphetamines and stimulants. That a lot of those players would have used PEDs if they were available.

Similarly, one could argue that teams have been stealing signs for years. The Astros broke the rules, apparently, by using technology. But, how many teams had studied catchers signs using video tape to help decipher the signals? Is that cheating. Is it cheating to use video during the game but acceptable prior to the game? Is breaking down a pitchers/hitters tendencies via video cheating? Sure, the astros took it to the extreme if they relayed a live video feed to a technician who then deciphered the signals in real time and relayed them via radio transmitters attached to a players body or someone int he dugout who would make noises.

Using that, okay, that's wrong. Is it wrong because they used a separate video feed? Because they deciphered it in real time? Because they had someone else/a computer program decipher it? I get the feeling the biggest issue is doing it in real time. But...what do I know?

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ndistops
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Re: video of Astros stealing signals(p.6 Crime and Punishment)

Post by ndistops »

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
February 19 20, 10:09 am
I mean, the entire thing is really interesting.

People that think the steroid users getting punished via HOF snubbing point out that previous players used drugs in the form of amphetamines and stimulants. That a lot of those players would have used PEDs if they were available.

Similarly, one could argue that teams have been stealing signs for years. The Astros broke the rules, apparently, by using technology. But, how many teams had studied catchers signs using video tape to help decipher the signals? Is that cheating. Is it cheating to use video during the game but acceptable prior to the game? Is breaking down a pitchers/hitters tendencies via video cheating? Sure, the astros took it to the extreme if they relayed a live video feed to a technician who then deciphered the signals in real time and relayed them via radio transmitters attached to a players body or someone int he dugout who would make noises.

Using that, okay, that's wrong. Is it wrong because they used a separate video feed? Because they deciphered it in real time? Because they had someone else/a computer program decipher it? I get the feeling the biggest issue is doing it in real time. But...what do I know?
Any team can use past video to try to decipher signs. That's tech available to every team. This issue is because Houston was using tech (the CF camera) specifically not available to other teams.

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ghostrunner
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Re: video of Astros stealing signals(p.6 Crime and Punishment)

Post by ghostrunner »

I break it down like this:

Signs picked up and relayed by players and staff in the dugout and on the field - all good.
Signs picked up and relayed via sources outside the field and the dugout - live tv, binoculars, telephoned or communicated to players or people in the dugout - no good

Watching video between at-bats is established practice for other reasons, and there's a reason signs get changed as the game goes on. If you have to change signs every minute because of live television, that's too much.

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sighyoung
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Re: video of Astros stealing signals(p.6 Crime and Punishment)

Post by sighyoung »

ghostrunner wrote:
February 19 20, 12:19 pm
I break it down like this:

Signs picked up and relayed by players and staff in the dugout and on the field - all good.
Signs picked up and relayed via sources outside the field and the dugout - live tv, binoculars, telephoned or communicated to players or people in the dugout - no good

Watching video between at-bats is established practice for other reasons, and there's a reason signs get changed as the game goes on. If you have to change signs every minute because of live television, that's too much.
The latter points out a key point: teams know in the first and last instances what other teams are doing, and can adjust. Both teams have similar information. With signs picked up outside the field and the dugout, opposing teams may never know, and certainly can't adjust.
Last edited by sighyoung on February 19 20, 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: video of Astros stealing signals(p.6 Crime and Punishment)

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sighyoung
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Re: video of Astros stealing signals(p.6 Crime and Punishment)

Post by sighyoung »

ndistops wrote:
February 19 20, 10:37 am

Any team can use past video to try to decipher signs. That's tech available to every team. This issue is because Houston was using tech (the CF camera) specifically not available to other teams.
++

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sighyoung
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Re: video of Astros stealing signals(p.6 Crime and Punishment)

Post by sighyoung »

tlombard wrote:
February 19 20, 9:59 am
If I'm new to the Astros this season, I'm making sure that the opposing pitchers know that I wasn't around during the sign stealing once the beanings begins LOL.
Or pick up good translations of The Book of Job or Lamentations.

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Re: video of Astros stealing signals(p.6 Crime and Punishment)

Post by CardsofSTL »

Why MLB players are speaking up about sign stealing like nothing else ever

Mike Trout -- exemplary athlete, polished face of baseball, as uncontroversial as they come -- stood in front of an Angels-themed backdrop Monday morning and joined the swelling list of star players taking pointed shots at the Houston Astros. Trout stated that he "lost respect" for peers he once considered friends, called all of this "sad for baseball" and cracked jokes about how "fun" it would be to know which pitch was coming. Twenty-five miles west, at Dodgers camp in Glendale, Arizona, Justin Turner, among the game's most respected veterans, went out of his way to torch Major League Baseball's commissioner, Rob Manfred, for the way he seemed to minimize the World Series trophy.

Players everywhere, from Arizona to Florida, in spring training camps dotted throughout both states, have been outspoken in ways a buttoned-up sport like this has never seen. The scathing remarks, aimed at both their peers and the man who oversees their sport, have come from household names and fringe major leaguers, each new voice empowering the other, every day producing new triggers.
The opinions have been diverse but have mostly followed these common themes:

1. Stealing signs the way the Astros did, and knowing which pitch was coming, is a big deal and should not be diminished.

2. Astros players should have been punished.

3. The Astros -- particularly owner Jim Crane -- have not shown enough contrition.

4. The Astros' illegal sign-stealing practices extended into the 2019 season, even though MLB's investigation stated otherwise.

5. Manfred, entering his sixth season as the sport's commissioner, didn't act quickly enough, wasn't firm enough and hasn't been forthright enough.
Before fielding questions from the assembled media at a ballroom in Scottsdale, Arizona, on Tuesday afternoon, Manfred apologized profusely for referring to the World Series trophy as "a piece of metal," a choice of words that drew the ire of Turner and Jon Lester. Later, Manfred was asked if he had ever experienced such vitriol within his sport.

"I've been around a long time," Manfred said, "and I've never seen this kind of commentary from players about other players in the entire time that I've been involved."

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Re: video of Astros stealing signals(p.6 Crime and Punishment)

Post by sighyoung »

Image

Manfred just keeps making things better.

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