Offseason disappointment

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AWvsCBsteeeerike3
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Re: Offseason disappointment

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

Hold on. So, a guy can post something that gets deleted, come back and repost it, then expect to be protected from criticism?


Can't we just in general point out the argument (not the poster)is stupid and not worthy of discusssion then move forward? Because demonstrating that, in fact, every offseason isn't worse than the previous one year in and year out is .... well, should be, below this board. If not, then I guess that's where we are.

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Offseason disappointment

Post by CardsofSTL »

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
February 16 20, 5:58 pm
Hold on. So, a guy can post something that gets deleted, come back and repost it, then expect to be protected from criticism?


Can't we just in general point out the argument (not the poster)is stupid and not worthy of discusssion then move forward? Because demonstrating that, in fact, every offseason isn't worse than the previous one year in and year out is .... well, should be, below this board. If not, then I guess that's where we are.
1. He didn't repost the post that was deleted; he referenced it when making a different post.

2. It's not up to you or me to decide what a person is allowed to believe regarding the Cardinals offseasons; if a poster thinks every offseason is worse than the previous one; then that is their opinion. We can all have different opinions.

If you have any further commentary on this; take it to a PM. I am not going to derail this thread any further.

AWvsCBsteeeerike3
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Re: Offseason disappointment

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

Farewell Friends wrote:
February 16 20, 12:34 pm
jagtrader wrote:
February 16 20, 12:12 pm
Slogging through four seasons averaging 87 wins when half the league is losing on purpose has been a blast. We should thank the Cardinals for such unrelenting excellence. They feed you $10 pretzels and a line about how they can't "afford" a cleanup hitter.
Half the National League isn’t losing on purpose. Aside from 2013-2015 when they won 90+, they averaged 88 wins in Mozeliak’s first five seasons.
Shockingly, post season performances matter. And the fact you included 2011 highlights this because his run from 07-10 was unspectacular. Comparing 16-19 to 07-10 kind of er is completely damning to whatever your point is.
Mozeliaks first 4 years (07-10):
1 playoff appearance
Mozeliaks middle 5 years (11-15):
5 playoff appearances
2 pennants
1 title
Mozeliaks last 4 years (16-19):
1 playoff appearance

If you recall, there were a lot of disgruntled peeps back in 2011 after the Rasmus trade. Up until they won it all.

If Stl fans aren’t happy with what mo has done lately, it just goes to prove their status as best baseball fans in America is spot on.

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Farewell Friends
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Re: Offseason disappointment

Post by Farewell Friends »

Well, he wasn’t the general manager in 2007, so strike that. And the postseason is random, so I don’t think it matters. Anyway, averaging 87 wins and missing the playoffs three times isn’t good and people shouldn’t accept that. Doesn’t change my overall impression that people have been dissatisfied with the offseason for several years now.

AWvsCBsteeeerike3
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Re: Offseason disappointment

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. I got the feeling even if people weren't happy with the team, they were at least satisfied that the FO made an effort to address what they could in the offseason leading up to the 2019 campaign.

Conversely, despite offense being a large question mark, they let one of their best hitters walk away this offseason. And, they did it at a time when they, as they seem to always be, are in that area where every win matters. Winning 87 games means they're going to fall a few wins short of the playoffs quite a bit. Watching them punt those wins in the offseason can be a little frustrating. Of course, watching them spend $10+M to try to get those wins but make bad signings is also frustrating.

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wart57
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Re: Offseason disappointment

Post by wart57 »

Maybe they don't think Ozuna's shoulder will hold up.

Maybe they think the Kids will play well.

Maybe they think Marp and Goldy will be better this year.

Maybe they are wrong about all of it and the Cards will suck this year.

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pioneer98
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Re: Offseason disappointment

Post by pioneer98 »

The last couple years they made a "big" move (Ozuna and then Goldschmidt) to address their biggest need and then packed it in for the offseason aside from a small move or two. Some of wished they had done more, but the past 2 offseasons were at least defensible. This year they did nothing to address their biggest need (OF). They decided to roll the dice with the young players and prospects. They also traded away depth for a prospect. It would have made perfect sense to do another "consolidation" type of trade where they moved a prospect plus a young outfielder for a more proven outfielder, like another Ozuna. Or they could have just bumped their offer to Ozuna up a bit. I don't get why they are gambling with the outfield when they could definitely have more of a sure thing. If they had just made 1 sorta big move this offseason I think you could defend not doing much else. One of these years they are going to get burned by having too many question marks on the roster and they'll end up like the Giants the last 2 years.

jagtrader
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Re: Offseason disappointment

Post by jagtrader »

The previous two offseasons were great. They tried. It didn't work out the best but they tried. People going back five years aren't acknowledging the landscape has changed. Super teams win. Playing it safe and getting 88 wins won't win a World Series. But it's an easy path because half the league is losing on purpose and you can fool people by lucking into an occasional playoff spot and maybe a series win.

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Offseason disappointment

Post by CardsofSTL »

I actually don't mind what the Cardinals are doing in regards to the OF. I say this as someone who likes Ozuna and would have been fine with the Cardinals signing him (especially for the pittance he signed for with ATL). But if there was a clear upgrade on the free agent market then I would question it more; but when we think of Ozuna's defense (lack thereof) and his streaky bat; maybe we can get a + in that department by utilizing O'Neill/Edman/Carlson this season. I have a feeling the strongest of those three will end up being the starter with Lane as the spot start/bench bat.

On the pitching side...the rotation is a big question mark for me; but if CMart comes in healthy and like the good CMart of old we have an automatic improved rotation over last season even if Mikolas misses some time. We had arms in AAA that probably could have been up for more of the season last year if we had a role for them; thinking Gomber and Ponce specifically; so I feel like the bullpen will flesh itself out with the best arms getting the slots. KK's addition as a spot starter or long man in the bullpen is going to be a positive in my opinion.

So I understand the Cardinals decision to stand pat and see what they have in the players on the roster now. It's not popular and everyone likes the big splash and shiny new player; but standing pat with what the roster consists of now versus the players that were on the market is not without merit.

A caveat to this thinking is the idea of a trade...of course the Cardinals did make a trade by moving some of their surplus OF for prospects and that was a good; but if we could have added a premier player through a trade; I would have been on board with that. I am looking at you, Arenado.

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JCShutout
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Re: Offseason disappointment

Post by JCShutout »

I was disappointed in the off-season but I kinda get it. They want to be competitive but also be very profitable. If they raise payroll too much, fans will expect that level every year, so they make a big move a year for a few years, then hang steady for a bit, then raise it when fan support starts to wane.

I think I’m more frustrated that they spent the money poorly. If marp, goldy and Fowler don’t play better, Then it’s going to be rough.

That said, you never know. Maybe the pitching solidifies because mikolas refines his form, Jack continues to rock, Kim is effective and cmart stays healthy. Maybe goldy and the kids play well enough that the team can use marp and Fowler the way they used marp in the last months of the season, and with limited reps he hit much better.

That’s why they play the games, and all that.

Edit: just saw the mikolas getting an mri thread. Oh geez...

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