Can DeJong Break Out?

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heyzeus
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Re: Can DeJong Break Out?

Post by heyzeus »

dmarx114 wrote:
August 25 21, 8:02 am
cardsfantx wrote:
August 25 21, 7:48 am
dmarx114 wrote:
August 25 21, 7:22 am
cardsfantx wrote:
August 25 21, 7:16 am
dmarx114 wrote:
August 25 21, 7:05 am
cardsfantx wrote:
August 25 21, 6:53 am
Big Amoco Sign wrote:
August 24 21, 11:52 pm
cardsfantx wrote:
August 24 21, 7:08 pm
He’s been bad this year, and still has a 1.3 WAR

Got 16 HRs and plays solid defense…we have a lot bigger issues than SS IMO (esp with sosa doing well)
Could improve by 3-4 wins with one of the marquee FAs available though, and still keep DeJong around for 1 WAR for spot starts/2B/UT.
Hey I’m all for that…

But they let wong walk over 12 million, but resign a much worse aging player in yadi for 10 million

So I don’t have very much faith that we do things that are smart
This isn't apples to apples.
care to explain?
Goes without saying that they play different positions. The Cardinals had a replacement for Wong, who has done almost as well, for a fraction of the cost.

Was anyone here comfortable starting Knizer for 100 games? The Mets signed James McCann for $8mm a year for 4 years. He's been a train wreck. Yadi is so freaking valuable to our team. The downgrade from him to any realistic replacement would have been drastic.

Picking Yadi over Wong was a very smart decision.
Edman has not been comparable to Wong...wong has him more than doubled in WAR in 200 less PA

and yes, Knizner could duplicate (as a minimum) what Yadi does currently

if they let Wong walk, they should do the same with Yadi
And this is why the "How good is Yadi thread" exists.

Also, baseball reference has Wong at 2.8 WAR and Edman at 2.6.
Does anyone have an explanation for why Edman's WAR values vary so greatly between Baseball Reference (2.6) and Fangraphs (1.3)? I can see that Bref has him as a positive on defense, while Fangraphs is a slight negative, but why?

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Fat Strat
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Re: Can DeJong Break Out?

Post by Fat Strat »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:
August 24 21, 11:52 pm
cardsfantx wrote:
August 24 21, 7:08 pm
He’s been bad this year, and still has a 1.3 WAR

Got 16 HRs and plays solid defense…we have a lot bigger issues than SS IMO (esp with sosa doing well)
Could improve by 3-4 wins with one of the marquee FAs available though, and still keep DeJong around for 1 WAR for spot starts/2B/UT.
That's definitely a course of action that interests me. Plus Statcast doesn't like DeJong's defense so I'm increasingly skeptical of his Fangraph's WAR. His value is largely dependent on one defensive metric that has flaws. That's not good...

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Jocephus
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Re: Can DeJong Break Out?

Post by Jocephus »

i dont get too uptight with bwar vs fwar but i'd much rather have wong at 2b i can tell you that. edman would be a great super sub but as a starter he is exposed.

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Jocephus
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Re: Can DeJong Break Out?

Post by Jocephus »

heyzeus wrote:
August 25 21, 8:29 am
dmarx114 wrote:
August 25 21, 8:02 am
cardsfantx wrote:
August 25 21, 7:48 am
dmarx114 wrote:
August 25 21, 7:22 am
cardsfantx wrote:
August 25 21, 7:16 am
dmarx114 wrote:
August 25 21, 7:05 am
cardsfantx wrote:
August 25 21, 6:53 am
Big Amoco Sign wrote:
August 24 21, 11:52 pm
cardsfantx wrote:
August 24 21, 7:08 pm
He’s been bad this year, and still has a 1.3 WAR

Got 16 HRs and plays solid defense…we have a lot bigger issues than SS IMO (esp with sosa doing well)
Could improve by 3-4 wins with one of the marquee FAs available though, and still keep DeJong around for 1 WAR for spot starts/2B/UT.
Hey I’m all for that…

But they let wong walk over 12 million, but resign a much worse aging player in yadi for 10 million

So I don’t have very much faith that we do things that are smart
This isn't apples to apples.
care to explain?
Goes without saying that they play different positions. The Cardinals had a replacement for Wong, who has done almost as well, for a fraction of the cost.

Was anyone here comfortable starting Knizer for 100 games? The Mets signed James McCann for $8mm a year for 4 years. He's been a train wreck. Yadi is so freaking valuable to our team. The downgrade from him to any realistic replacement would have been drastic.

Picking Yadi over Wong was a very smart decision.
Edman has not been comparable to Wong...wong has him more than doubled in WAR in 200 less PA

and yes, Knizner could duplicate (as a minimum) what Yadi does currently

if they let Wong walk, they should do the same with Yadi
And this is why the "How good is Yadi thread" exists.

Also, baseball reference has Wong at 2.8 WAR and Edman at 2.6.
Does anyone have an explanation for why Edman's WAR values vary so greatly between Baseball Reference (2.6) and Fangraphs (1.3)? I can see that Bref has him as a positive on defense, while Fangraphs is a slight negative, but why?
https://library.fangraphs.com/war/diffe ... fwar-rwar/

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Can DeJong Break Out?

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

Fat Strat wrote:
August 25 21, 8:31 am
Big Amoco Sign wrote:
August 24 21, 11:52 pm
cardsfantx wrote:
August 24 21, 7:08 pm
He’s been bad this year, and still has a 1.3 WAR

Got 16 HRs and plays solid defense…we have a lot bigger issues than SS IMO (esp with sosa doing well)
Could improve by 3-4 wins with one of the marquee FAs available though, and still keep DeJong around for 1 WAR for spot starts/2B/UT.
That's definitely a course of action that interests me. Plus Statcast doesn't like DeJong's defense so I'm increasingly skeptical of his Fangraph's WAR. His value is largely dependent on one defensive metric that has flaws. That's not good...
Would like a defensive WAR fully using Statcast soon. And one that also counts misplays, errors, cutoff man etc on top of it. (I know that one of the WARs does this and one doesn’t).

DeJong’s defense to the eye isn’t that good to me. Range largely. He’s slow.

DeJong can be the pinch bat that Carpenter was this year. Go get Seager or Correa.

dmarx114
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Re: Can DeJong Break Out?

Post by dmarx114 »

The eye test tells me Tommy has been a major positive defensively.

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MrCrowesGarden
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Re: Can DeJong Break Out?

Post by MrCrowesGarden »

Jocephus wrote:
August 25 21, 8:31 am
i dont get too uptight with bwar vs fwar but i'd much rather have wong at 2b i can tell you that. edman would be a great super sub but as a starter he is exposed.
Yep. They took the best part of Tommy Edman and stripped away the value.

dmarx114
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Re: Can DeJong Break Out?

Post by dmarx114 »

Jocephus wrote:
August 25 21, 8:31 am
i dont get too uptight with bwar vs fwar but i'd much rather have wong at 2b i can tell you that. edman would be a great super sub but as a starter he is exposed.
I think Tommy has been very good as an every day starter. I don't agree that he has been "exposed".

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Jocephus
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Re: Can DeJong Break Out?

Post by Jocephus »

dmarx114 wrote:
August 25 21, 8:58 am
Jocephus wrote:
August 25 21, 8:31 am
i dont get too uptight with bwar vs fwar but i'd much rather have wong at 2b i can tell you that. edman would be a great super sub but as a starter he is exposed.
I think Tommy has been very good as an every day starter. I don't agree that he has been "exposed".
ok John

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Can DeJong Break Out?

Post by CardsofSTL »

I would buy a ticket to see Tommy exposed. Hot.

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