Brennaman Suspended

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Bo Hart
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Re: Brennaman Suspended

Post by Bo Hart »

TheoSqua wrote:
August 20 20, 9:44 am
I always wonder about comments like this. I think most of us have made jokes or have humor around things that don't align with our core beliefs. For example i'm fairly religious, but there's been several sacrilegious jokes that i've found wildly hilarious that would be really offensive to another person. i've participated in jokes about race that would be horribly inappropriate given a different audience. Most people I know have some overlap with offensive material and their personal sense of humor.

So when something like this happens i'm always curious is the person legitimately a bigot and this is part of his inner personality, or was this some attempt of humor he had with someone he has a rapport with that is funny to them in their inner circle, but doesn't align with his actual core feelings/beliefs?

Either way, he should know better than to do something unprofessional in a job with a live mic. I generally don't make a lot of offensive jokes/comments, but if it were to happen it wouldn't be in the workplace because I like my job.

I just know i'm not perfect and I wouldn't want the core of who I am to be judged on a few jokes i've made in poor taste or that are only funny around certain people, etc. So when I see someone like this get publicly skewered I wonder if it's an over reaction or a legitimate revealing of who the person is.

I think the perfect example of what i'm talking about is James Gunn's tweets that got him temporarily fired from Guardians of the Galaxy. They were some pretty rough jokes that were inappropriate to a large number of people and the internet as a whole was pretty divided on how he should be held responsible for that.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying here.

Guys like Aubrey Huff and Curt Schilling - they're degenerates. They openly boast about how bigoted they are. There's no defending them.

Brennaman has always come off as a pretentious douchebag to me. I think most people probably perceived him as an arrogant prick even coming into this incident. He probably doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he does actually look down on gays.

Still, taking private convos - or like you said, inside jokes - at face value (which cancel culture does all the time to help fuel narratives) is imo very disingenuous. Imagine if the Front Right Beer Girl thread from GWB went viral on the internet. This place would probably be labeled perverted, misogynistic, and a breeding ground for objectification of women. Honestly, in today's society, it could probably be used as fuel to get someone fired if the internet mob banded together with their pitchforks. However, any regular of this site knows that the replies in that topic are exaggerated for effect. Context and rapport matters, but that's never factored in when judging convos as an outsider.

This happening at his workplace does change things a bit. On one hand, since he's been doing it so long, I do see how he could be desensitized to wearing a mic and let this slip. Still, even if he thought he wasn't live, there's still an entire production crew that would've been able to hear him, so it definitely seems careless and insensitive regardless. That said, I speak pretty freely at work with people I trust (again, inside jokes and rapport). Even my coworkers with the cleanest, most-sterling reputations say things candidly off the record. I can think of damning comments virtually every one of my coworkers have made when taken out of context.

I'm glad that people are being grilled for holding these archaic and hateful beliefs, but I don't like how vindictive society is becoming as a whole. Collectively, we're way too quick to jump to the nuclear option. As much as I dislike Brennaman, wanting to destroy a 30-year career over this seems extreme and hateful in its own right. Punish him, but give him a chance to change and grow.

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TheoSqua
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Re: Brennaman Suspended

Post by TheoSqua »

Kyle wrote:
August 22 20, 8:57 am
TheoSqua wrote:
August 20 20, 9:44 am
I always wonder about comments like this. I think most of us have made jokes or have humor around things that don't align with our core beliefs. For example i'm fairly religious, but there's been several sacrilegious jokes that i've found wildly hilarious that would be really offensive to another person. i've participated in jokes about race that would be horribly inappropriate given a different audience. Most people I know have some overlap with offensive material and their personal sense of humor.

So when something like this happens i'm always curious is the person legitimately a bigot and this is part of his inner personality, or was this some attempt of humor he had with someone he has a rapport with that is funny to them in their inner circle, but doesn't align with his actual core feelings/beliefs?

Either way, he should know better than to do something unprofessional in a job with a live mic. I generally don't make a lot of offensive jokes/comments, but if it were to happen it wouldn't be in the workplace because I like my job.

I just know i'm not perfect and I wouldn't want the core of who I am to be judged on a few jokes i've made in poor taste or that are only funny around certain people, etc. So when I see someone like this get publicly skewered I wonder if it's an over reaction or a legitimate revealing of who the person is.

I think the perfect example of what i'm talking about is James Gunn's tweets that got him temporarily fired from Guardians of the Galaxy. They were some pretty rough jokes that were inappropriate to a large number of people and the internet as a whole was pretty divided on how he should be held responsible for that.
I agree with a lot of what you're saying here.

Guys like Aubrey Huff and Curt Schilling - they're degenerates. They openly boast about how bigoted they are. There's no defending them.

Brennaman has always come off as a pretentious douchebag to me. I think most people probably perceived him as an arrogant prick even coming into this incident. He probably doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he does actually look down on gays.

Still, taking private convos - or like you said, inside jokes - at face value (which cancel culture does all the time to help fuel narratives) is imo very disingenuous. Imagine if the Front Right Beer Girl thread from GWB went viral on the internet. This place would probably be labeled perverted, misogynistic, and a breeding ground for objectification of women. Honestly, in today's society, it could probably be used as fuel to get someone fired if the internet mob banded together with their pitchforks. However, any regular of this site knows that the replies in that topic are exaggerated for effect. Context and rapport matters, but that's never factored in when judging convos as an outsider.

This happening at his workplace does change things a bit. On one hand, since he's been doing it so long, I do see how he could be desensitized to wearing a mic and let this slip. Still, even if he thought he wasn't live, there's still an entire production crew that would've been able to hear him, so it definitely seems careless and insensitive regardless. That said, I speak pretty freely at work with people I trust (again, inside jokes and rapport). Even my coworkers with the cleanest, most-sterling reputations say things candidly off the record. I can think of damning comments virtually every one of my coworkers have made when taken out of context.

I'm glad that people are being grilled for holding these archaic and hateful beliefs, but I don't like how vindictive society is becoming as a whole. Collectively, we're way too quick to jump to the nuclear option. As much as I dislike Brennaman, wanting to destroy a 30-year career over this seems extreme and hateful in its own right. Punish him, but give him a chance to change and grow.
You did a considerably better job of articulating what I wanted to say without sounding like you are defending a homophobe like I did. Thanks for that.

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Popeye_Card
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Re: Brennaman Suspended

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You nailed it Kyle.

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Radbird
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Re: Brennaman Suspended

Post by Radbird »

As I was searching for Cronos quotes during his memorial GDT last night, I found this one where he expressed his feelings on the Brennaman family.
Cronos wrote:
January 17 19, 1:00 pm
Jocephus wrote:
Love Marty Brenneman.

Can't stand his kid.

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Re: Brennaman Suspended

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This happening at his workplace does change things a bit. On one hand, since he's been doing it so long, I do see how he could be desensitized to wearing a mic and let this slip. Still, even if he thought he wasn't live, there's still an entire production crew that would've been able to hear him, so it definitely seems careless and insensitive regardless. That said, I speak pretty freely at work with people I trust (again, inside jokes and rapport). Even my coworkers with the cleanest, most-sterling reputations say things candidly off the record. I can think of damning comments virtually every one of my coworkers have made when taken out of context.

I'm glad that people are being grilled for holding these archaic and hateful beliefs, but I don't like how vindictive society is becoming as a whole. Collectively, we're way too quick to jump to the nuclear option. As much as I dislike Brennaman, wanting to destroy a 30-year career over this seems extreme and hateful in its own right. Punish him, but give him a chance to change and grow.
Three questions.

1. Do you think this was the first time Brennaman has said something like this? Heck, do you think it was the hundredth?

2. Do you think Brennaman's gay colleagues, or just people who aren't bigots, should expect a workplace free from people making homophobic "jokes"?

3. Do you think Brennaman is entitled to this particular job?

This isn't "speaking freely", being "candid", or an "inside joke". This is reinforcing the homophobia that has led to people being murdered (Matthew Shepard, among thousands of examples), losing their jobs, losing their homes or being denied housing (countless examples). The length of time someone has been doing a job is, or should be, completely irrelevant to the discussion (unless, much like 10-and-5 rights, you think there should be some length-of-service protection for being a homophobe).

I think society's vindictiveness has been an issue for a lot longer than you claim, it's just that "nuclear option" is now being used against people holding these sorts of opinions. I'm certain that there are at least a few gay active major leaguers, for instance. I'm also sure that they're not coming out because they've seen homophobia from all sorts of people inside the game from the very lowest level to the highest. That seems a pretty good example of a vindictive society to me, and I wish some of the people who are springing to Brennaman's defence would have discovered that passion a little earlier.

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Bo Hart
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Re: Brennaman Suspended

Post by Bo Hart »

Famous, I don't have the mental energy to get into a back-and-forth about this. Simply put, I think it's disingenuous to take what somebody said in private (using the word 'private' loosely here) and make assumptions about their motives, beliefs, or intents. That's it. My closest friends are bleeding-heart liberals and champions of gay rights, but I could dig up damning personal conversations from every one of them that would lead you to believe otherwise. Brennaman might be a homophobe, but I'd stop short of declaring that based on one off-the-cuff remark. Therefore, I'd punish him based on what I know (he made a really tasteless comment that offended a lot of people), and not what I presume (he is homphobic and hates gays). We'll just have to agree to disagree.

And no, it's not okay to talk like this anymore. And no, it's especially not okay to talk like this at work.

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Re: Brennaman Suspended

Post by redbirdjazzz »

Famous Mortimer wrote:
August 25 20, 10:32 am
This happening at his workplace does change things a bit. On one hand, since he's been doing it so long, I do see how he could be desensitized to wearing a mic and let this slip. Still, even if he thought he wasn't live, there's still an entire production crew that would've been able to hear him, so it definitely seems careless and insensitive regardless. That said, I speak pretty freely at work with people I trust (again, inside jokes and rapport). Even my coworkers with the cleanest, most-sterling reputations say things candidly off the record. I can think of damning comments virtually every one of my coworkers have made when taken out of context.

I'm glad that people are being grilled for holding these archaic and hateful beliefs, but I don't like how vindictive society is becoming as a whole. Collectively, we're way too quick to jump to the nuclear option. As much as I dislike Brennaman, wanting to destroy a 30-year career over this seems extreme and hateful in its own right. Punish him, but give him a chance to change and grow.
Three questions.

1. Do you think this was the first time Brennaman has said something like this? Heck, do you think it was the hundredth?

2. Do you think Brennaman's gay colleagues, or just people who aren't bigots, should expect a workplace free from people making homophobic "jokes"?

3. Do you think Brennaman is entitled to this particular job?

This isn't "speaking freely", being "candid", or an "inside joke". This is reinforcing the homophobia that has led to people being murdered (Matthew Shepard, among thousands of examples), losing their jobs, losing their homes or being denied housing (countless examples). The length of time someone has been doing a job is, or should be, completely irrelevant to the discussion (unless, much like 10-and-5 rights, you think there should be some length-of-service protection for being a homophobe).

I think society's vindictiveness has been an issue for a lot longer than you claim, it's just that "nuclear option" is now being used against people holding these sorts of opinions. I'm certain that there are at least a few gay active major leaguers, for instance. I'm also sure that they're not coming out because they've seen homophobia from all sorts of people inside the game from the very lowest level to the highest. That seems a pretty good example of a vindictive society to me, and I wish some of the people who are springing to Brennaman's defence would have discovered that passion a little earlier.
++

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Re: Brennaman Suspended

Post by Fat_Bulldog »

I hate what Brennaman said and the way he apologized. I also hate "cancel culture."

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Re: Brennaman Suspended

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Brennaman resigns

Thom Brennaman has resigned as a Cincinnati Reds broadcaster, he told WCPO on Friday, one month after he used an anti-gay slur on the air.

"My family and I have decided that I am going to step away from my role as the television voice of the Cincinnati Reds," Brennaman said in a statement to the network. "I would like to thank the Reds, Reds fans and the LGBTQ community for the incredible support and grace they have shown my family and me."

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Re: Brennaman Suspended

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