White Sox fire Rick Renteria/TLR Hired (p.3)

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Famous Mortimer
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Re: White Sox fire Rick Renteria/TLR Hired (p.3)

Post by Famous Mortimer »

OmahaCard79 wrote:
November 12 20, 11:10 am
The left wants to believe that everyone should share their purity on these matters. But, having a hard line, no room for discussion or compromise ideal on this type of stuff likely flat out cost them elections this year.
My sole "purity" on this issue is I don't think people should be racist. Yes, I am a hard-liner about that. What sorts of racism do you think are okay?

"Likely" or "flat out" - which one is it? They seem contradictory.

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Re: White Sox fire Rick Renteria/TLR Hired (p.3)

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

OmahaCard79 wrote:
November 12 20, 11:17 am
Big Amoco Sign wrote:
November 12 20, 11:12 am
It isn't just Stroman.

And it's equally as dangerous to go "this <black player> must be misguided, no way Tony could be racist."

I definitely agree that around 2016, the neoliberals (center left, more than 'leftists') have backed themselves into a woke corner, specifically NYC journos and media types. But that doesn't excuse Tony here. There's no "middle ground" to racism. If you can't understand a black player's struggle with the anthem (really basic [expletive] to be honest) then you have a problem you need to address within yourself.
Where did I ever call Stroman misguided. And who else has come out and specifically called La Russa racist based on their actual dealings with the man?
Ron Gant, apparently Royce Clayton and Rickey Henderson did have issues if you take him at his word.

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Re: White Sox fire Rick Renteria/TLR Hired (p.3)

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Mods,
Let's not let Baseball Talk turn into political discussion.

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Re: White Sox fire Rick Renteria/TLR Hired (p.3)

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Big Amoco Sign wrote:
November 12 20, 11:12 am
It isn't just Stroman.

And it's equally as dangerous to go "this <black player> must be misguided, no way Tony could be racist."

I definitely agree that around 2016, the neoliberals (center left, more than 'leftists') have backed themselves into a woke corner, specifically NYC journos and media types. But that doesn't excuse Tony here. There's no "middle ground" to racism. If you can't understand a black player's struggle with the anthem (really basic [expletive] to be honest) then you have a problem you need to address within yourself.

Kneeling for the flag isn't racist. But kneeling in an overt response to a black player or black player-supporting non-POC doing it--could be considered racist. There's an argument at least.
Look, I agree with these types of protests. I have absolutely no issue with them and never have. But, I also realize it's a hot button topic to many. So, while I certainly understand black players struggles with the anthem and all that's associated with it, I also know that it's pie in the sky to expect everyone else to conform to what we see as "right."

I know many who have military experience, people with family members who've died that take a different view. I don't agree with it, but I'm also not going to go hard line and dismiss what they are saying, cut them out of my life, etc.

It's this need for total purity on both sides that is destroying the country. The idea that you absolutely have to fit into my ideal of what's right and wrong or you need to go away, never work again, and probably crawl under a rock and die that's making the divide the size of the grand canyon. And, we just had an election that showed that roughly half the country is moving more conservative on the state and federal level. Yes, Donald Trump lost, but to see that as some win for liberalism is misguided as the Republicans won more house seats, didn't lose the Senate, gained governorships, and didn't lose state houses. The perceived "radicalization" of the left was pounced on by the right and absolutely pushed more of the general populace to the right in this election. For the left to truly succeed, they need to engage people that aren't in their wheelhouse and that's not going to happen by making everything a referendum and alienating anyone that isn't pure.

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Re: White Sox fire Rick Renteria/TLR Hired (p.3)

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Not to discuss racism--only Tony Larussa history here:
Ron Gant, still angry at Tony La Russa, accused his former manager of racism.

"Rickey Henderson didn't like him, Royce Clayton didn't like him," Gant said in Clearwater, Fla. "He treated Ozzie Smith like dirt. Brian Jordan didn't like him. I don't know too many people who did like him."

All of those players are black.

"That's called unforgivable," La Russa, the St. Louis Cardinals manager, said Tuesday. "That's lower than cheap. But I'm not going to sue him. I'll turn the page."

Gant, traded to Philadelphia during the offseason, said that "if he can't control you as a player, if you're not a 'yes' player, he doesn't want you. If you have your own opinions, he doesn't want you."

La Russa wondered what else Gant accused him of.

"Did he say anything about me kicking animals or robbing old ladies?" the manager said.

La Russa also fired back about Gant's lack of production. Gant struck out 162 times in 1997 and slumped again last season, needing a strong September to end up at .240 with 26 homers and 67 RBIs. In 382 games with the Cardinals during three seasons, he fanned 352 times.

"It was whiff, whiff, whiff," La Russa said. "I really hope he goes to Philly and whiffs for them like he whiffed for us, and we'll see what excuse he makes."

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Re: White Sox fire Rick Renteria/TLR Hired (p.3)

Post by OmahaCard79 »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:
November 12 20, 11:19 am
OmahaCard79 wrote:
November 12 20, 11:17 am
Big Amoco Sign wrote:
November 12 20, 11:12 am
It isn't just Stroman.

And it's equally as dangerous to go "this <black player> must be misguided, no way Tony could be racist."

I definitely agree that around 2016, the neoliberals (center left, more than 'leftists') have backed themselves into a woke corner, specifically NYC journos and media types. But that doesn't excuse Tony here. There's no "middle ground" to racism. If you can't understand a black player's struggle with the anthem (really basic [expletive] to be honest) then you have a problem you need to address within yourself.
Where did I ever call Stroman misguided. And who else has come out and specifically called La Russa racist based on their actual dealings with the man?
Ron Gant, apparently Royce Clayton and Rickey Henderson did have issues if you take him at his word.

https://products.kitsapsun.com/archive/ ... ssa_o.html
Thank you for providing that. That's something. I still don't know what that actually shows about racism, but it's absolutely worth considering. Yes, TLR liked to control players. He also didn't get along with Scott Rolen for the same reason. Just because a manager is a task master and hard to work for doesn't make him a racist. Maybe there are things that weren't being said and dirty laundry not being aired. I'd love to see some of these ex players use their platform right now to come out against TLR if he's really a racist. Let's put this to bed right now. If you had a couple black former players of TLR highlight actual cases of racism, things he said, things he did to them to dehumanize them, then that would be enough ammunition for the Sox to pull the plug on this thing right now. It's probably at a tipping point, but what has actually been said or provided that the media is currently running with (not one article from 1999 or 2016) doesn't really hold up the narrative.
Last edited by OmahaCard79 on November 12 20, 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: White Sox fire Rick Renteria/TLR Hired (p.3)

Post by OmahaCard79 »

Famous Mortimer wrote:
November 12 20, 11:17 am
OmahaCard79 wrote:
November 12 20, 11:10 am
The left wants to believe that everyone should share their purity on these matters. But, having a hard line, no room for discussion or compromise ideal on this type of stuff likely flat out cost them elections this year.
My sole "purity" on this issue is I don't think people should be racist. Yes, I am a hard-liner about that. What sorts of racism do you think are okay?

"Likely" or "flat out" - which one is it? They seem contradictory.
I just think TLR managed hundreds of black players over his career. If those players truly thought that he's a racist, bring those stories to light right now and end his time in Chicago. This thing is hanging by a thread. If any of these players have their personal stories of racism from TLR, they can end his career. I'm not seeing anything yet, but that doesn't mean it won't come out. All I've seen is media spin, one article from 1999 and some comments from 2016 along with one player saying he wouldn't play for him with no real personal interaction to back it up.

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Re: White Sox fire Rick Renteria/TLR Hired (p.3)

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

OmahaCard79 wrote:
November 12 20, 11:34 am
Famous Mortimer wrote:
November 12 20, 11:17 am
OmahaCard79 wrote:
November 12 20, 11:10 am
The left wants to believe that everyone should share their purity on these matters. But, having a hard line, no room for discussion or compromise ideal on this type of stuff likely flat out cost them elections this year.
My sole "purity" on this issue is I don't think people should be racist. Yes, I am a hard-liner about that. What sorts of racism do you think are okay?

"Likely" or "flat out" - which one is it? They seem contradictory.
I just think TLR managed hundreds of black players over his career. If those players truly thought that he's a racist, bring those stories to light right now and end his time in Chicago. This thing is hanging by a thread. If any of these players have their personal stories of racism from TLR, they can end his career. I'm not seeing anything yet, but that doesn't mean it won't come out. All I've seen is media spin, one article from 1999 and some comments from 2016 along with one player saying he wouldn't play for him with no real personal interaction to back it up.
It's not on black people to "come forward" necessarily though. Why should Gant, a man with a news anchor career, come forward on TLR now and jeopardize his own career? Enough have talked over the years--is anyone listening? That's the issue now.

It isn't like Brian Jordan or Royce Clayton denounced what Gant said. They all remained buds for years.

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Re: White Sox fire Rick Renteria/TLR Hired (p.3)

Post by Jocephus »

Chicago White Sox letting legal process play out on Tony La Russa's DUI case
10:09 AM MT

Jesse RogersESPN Staff Writer
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/303 ... a-dui-case

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Re: White Sox fire Rick Renteria/TLR Hired (p.3)

Post by Jocephus »

John Jaso Jingle Heimer Schmidt: Does the La Russa hire make it more difficult for Chicago to bring in the free agents they want/need? I have to imagine a lot of players feel the same way Stroman does (and perhaps are as bold to be vocal about it).

Craig Edwards: Almost every time, money talks. Maybe it costs more to get a certain player, but probably it just costs more than the next-best bid.
Guest: As a Cardinals fan, what’s your take on TLR and the White Sox?


Craig Edwards: He did a great job managing the Cardinals until he retired after the 2011 season. I don’t know what made him a great candidate a decade later and I don’t know why the White Sox would have overlooked the second DUI. It doesn’t make a lot of sense.

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