Do the Cardinals have a Plan? Not Yet.

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Gypsy Lou
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Re: Do the Cardinals have a Plan? Not Yet.

Post by Gypsy Lou »

Popeye_Card wrote:
December 17 20, 8:31 am
Lindor would make a ton of sense. The type of player the Cardinals have liked to target in the past. One of if not the biggest trade partner during Mo's tenure. Durable. Consistent production. Slick fielder at a prime position. Highly marketable personality. Still getting a good number of productive years for a middle infielder before they inevitably tucker out by mid-30's.

One player through a fairly simple trade, and the Cardinals would instantly boost the excitement factor by a huge margin. The type of opportunity they've been saving that dry powder for.

But they probably won't do it.
What would a Lindor trade look like, because I'm all for it if it doesn't involve a Carlson, Gorman, Liberatore level talent.

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Popeye_Card
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Re: Do the Cardinals have a Plan? Not Yet.

Post by Popeye_Card »

Gypsy Lou wrote:
December 17 20, 8:41 am

What would a Lindor trade look like, because I'm all for it if it doesn't involve a Carlson, Gorman, Liberatore level talent.
I don't exactly know. The scuttlebutt is that it wouldn't take as much as you would think given the cash concerns across MLB. But I have a hard time believing that.

Let's say it takes Liberatore and some throw-ins. I think I'd still do that.

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Re: Do the Cardinals have a Plan? Not Yet.

Post by Fat Strat »

Popeye_Card wrote:
December 17 20, 8:46 am
Gypsy Lou wrote:
December 17 20, 8:41 am

What would a Lindor trade look like, because I'm all for it if it doesn't involve a Carlson, Gorman, Liberatore level talent.
I don't exactly know. The scuttlebutt is that it wouldn't take as much as you would think given the cash concerns across MLB. But I have a hard time believing that.

Let's say it takes Liberatore and some throw-ins. I think I'd still do that.
Cardinals won't. They actually have plenty of upper-end offensive prospects - Carlson, Gorman, Herrera, Knizner, and the recent draftees - Walker and Wynn. What they don't have much of is projectable starting pitchers. In the system, it's pretty much Thompson and Liberatore then a huge drop off to Oviedo and Rondon, neither of which have high odds to stick in a rotation. I just don't see them trading anyone with real elite upside after what's happened with Arozarena and others.

I actually think that Arenado is more of a possibility. The Rockies might be willing to do a close-to payroll-neutral deal if they can get a half-way decent prospect in return. Something like Arenado + cash for Martinez + Griffin Roberts and maybe another piece or two.

That deal still isn't likely at all. It's just more likely than a Lindor trade. Plus the Cards have Gorman, and, like I said, they're not interested in seeing players they trade away excel. They're just not going to make one of these big moves.

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Popeye_Card
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Re: Do the Cardinals have a Plan? Not Yet.

Post by Popeye_Card »

Fat Strat wrote:
December 17 20, 9:18 am
Popeye_Card wrote:
December 17 20, 8:46 am
Gypsy Lou wrote:
December 17 20, 8:41 am

What would a Lindor trade look like, because I'm all for it if it doesn't involve a Carlson, Gorman, Liberatore level talent.
I don't exactly know. The scuttlebutt is that it wouldn't take as much as you would think given the cash concerns across MLB. But I have a hard time believing that.

Let's say it takes Liberatore and some throw-ins. I think I'd still do that.
Cardinals won't. They actually have plenty of upper-end offensive prospects - Carlson, Gorman, Herrera, Knizner, and the recent draftees - Walker and Wynn. What they don't have much of is projectable starting pitchers. In the system, it's pretty much Thompson and Liberatore then a huge drop off to Oviedo and Rondon, neither of which have high odds to stick in a rotation. I just don't see them trading anyone with real elite upside after what's happened with Arozarena and others.

I actually think that Arenado is more of a possibility. The Rockies might be willing to do a close-to payroll-neutral deal if they can get a half-way decent prospect in return. Something like Arenado + cash for Martinez + Griffin Roberts and maybe another piece or two.

That deal still isn't likely at all. It's just more likely than a Lindor trade. Plus the Cards have Gorman, and, like I said, they're not interested in seeing players they trade away excel. They're just not going to make one of these big moves.
Good point on Liberatore in particular, plus the Cleveland Baseball Team may not be as interested in a SP prospect since they seem to be able to turn out top tier pitchers like clockwork from their system.

So what if the package were Gorman plus some spare parts? I think I'd do that too, since Gorman becomes somewhat expendable when you are now locked-in with good options at 1B (Goldschmidt), SS (Lindor), and 3B (DeJong) if you can get Lindor to re-sign.

I agree that Arenado is likely more do-able, and there are some pros and cons of going that direction instead. You know what you'll be paying him through age 35 (presuming he will not opt-out after this season, which doesn't seem likely). He brings what you need most (HR power). Having him at 3B maximizes DeJong's value by keeping him at SS. The downsides are that he's 3 years older, you know that he's expensive, and he could see a post-Coors dropoff in production. Likely not quite as marketable as Lindor, but still a good fit for the Cardinals' brand.

I'd probably do either deal, just to inject some life into the franchise. But I know the Cardinals likely won't, especially this offseason.

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Re: Do the Cardinals have a Plan? Not Yet.

Post by Famous Mortimer »

Popeye_Card wrote:
December 17 20, 8:41 am
I presume they prorated this by team games played, which by my math gives Marp 472 PA's in 2020. He would have to have a 627 PA per 162 game pace in 2021 to vest the option. That's a bit close for comfort if he stays healthy this year.
This depends on how well he plays, I assume. If he's ripping along at an all-star pace, then they'll probably swallow the vesting option; if he plays like he has the last couple of years, there's no way they'd give him 600+ PAs.

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Jocephus
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Re: Do the Cardinals have a Plan? Not Yet.

Post by Jocephus »

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Is Pederson enough to make the cards a contender(lite)

Craig Edwards
The Cardinals are a contender without him. Assuming they bring Yadi and Wainwright back, getting one decent lefty-hitting outfielder like Pederson or Schwarber or Gardner might make them favorites for the division depending on what the rest of the division does.

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MrCrowesGarden
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Re: Do the Cardinals have a Plan? Not Yet.

Post by MrCrowesGarden »

Contender Lite seems an apt description, but I prefer Jobber to the Stars

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sighyoung
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Re: Do the Cardinals have a Plan? Not Yet.

Post by sighyoung »

No man, no plan, anal canal, Cardinal.

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Jocephus
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Re: Do the Cardinals have a Plan? Not Yet.

Post by Jocephus »

Cardinals signed INF Jose Rondon to a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training.

Rondon is capable of playing all over the field, but he's posted just a .595 OPS over parts of three seasons in the majors and hasn't hit much in the minors, either. He'll turn 27 in March.
Dec 18, 2020, 11:36 AM ET

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Re: Do the Cardinals have a Plan? Not Yet.

Post by heyzeus »

HOT [expletive]' STOVE

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