Cardinals still need 1 more Studd Starter....

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Fat_Bulldog
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Re: Cardinals still need 1 more Studd Starter....

Post by Fat_Bulldog »

Will Kim be ready soon?

What can we expect of him?

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Cardinals still need 1 more Studd Starter....

Post by CardsofSTL »

Fat_Bulldog wrote:
April 6 21, 11:27 am
Will Kim be ready soon?

What can we expect of him?
I would expect him to be fairly limited on pitch count at least in the first couple of starts back. They may even use him in a piggyback role with one of the other starters.

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sighyoung
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Re: Cardinals still need 1 more Studd Starter....

Post by sighyoung »

Fat_Bulldog wrote:
April 6 21, 11:27 am
Will Kim be ready soon?

What can we expect of him?
Image

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Jayramball04
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Re: Cardinals still need 1 more Studd Starter....

Post by Jayramball04 »

Yep

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Re: Cardinals still need 1 more Studd Starter....

Post by Fat Strat »

Jocephus wrote:
April 6 21, 9:09 am
Justin: Can we start panicking about the cardinals pitching yet or is it too early?

Ben Clemens: We can, but that’s because it was panic-worthy before the season even started
Ben Clemens: One start isn’t enough to change my opinion about any of the guys who have gone so far, but my opinion of Wainwright and Martinez was not particularly rosy in the first place
Ben Clemens: Those guys are weak as the 2-3 starters on a real baseball team
I like Ben... but everyone is ignoring the issue here. Martinez and Wainwright were never designed to be 2-3 starters on this club. Mikolas was expected to make a full recovery from his surgery and that seems to be going just fine. His issue is not with his forearm. It's a shoulder strain from opening up too much early in the spring. The shoulder is kinetically connected to his surgery but there is no concern about Tommy John or lingering issues post surgery. He just went too hard on his shoulder too fast. Btu, he's throwing now and going through his own spring training. We'll see him in a 3-4 weeks.

Kim was an excellent starter for the Cardinals last season and is due back within a week. People have forgotten he exists because he didn't start the season with the club.

So... yeah, if you take out two of the Cardinals top 4 starters and then move everyone down 2 notches, they aren't good enough. If you assume that the starters they are missing won't be healthy all season, then they aren't good enough. But there's no good reason to assume that other than pessimism.

Now, I know what you'll say -- the Cardinals should not have counted on Mikolas being healthy! Obviously he wasn't going to pitch this season! First, that was not at all obvious, since he came to camp completely healthy and all his reports over the winter were very positive. Secondly, even if you assumed that to be true, that's why the club has Reyes and Ponce and Gant and Oviedo and Rondon and Thompson and Libertatore and Parsons and if they wanted to Helsley and Cabrera. They've built their rotation internally with huge success for over a decade now. It's not going to chance and shouldn't change.

[begin rant]
Also... you silly, fickle, short-attention-span Cardinals fans. So many of you (in general, not necessarily here) spit vile at me for writing about how the Cardinals should move on from Wainwright and upgrade the starter spot. It wasn't depth they lacked, I argued. It was high-end upside beyond Flaherty, I argued. You would have thought I suggested clubbing baby seals with rocks. No way! Couldn't do it! The club had to bring him back for the sentiment of it all. Couldn't possibly let him walk!

Don't start complaining now about the club not upgrading the rotation if you were one of the ones who couldn't let go of Wainwright. They were going to sign a starter and they did. Waino is the guy you all wanted and the front office knew it and so that's who you get. So, like it and stop complaining because you got what you wanted. [/end rant]

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Cardinals still need 1 more Studd Starter....

Post by CardsofSTL »

Fat Strat wrote:
April 12 21, 8:43 am
Jocephus wrote:
April 6 21, 9:09 am
Justin: Can we start panicking about the cardinals pitching yet or is it too early?

Ben Clemens: We can, but that’s because it was panic-worthy before the season even started
Ben Clemens: One start isn’t enough to change my opinion about any of the guys who have gone so far, but my opinion of Wainwright and Martinez was not particularly rosy in the first place
Ben Clemens: Those guys are weak as the 2-3 starters on a real baseball team
I like Ben... but everyone is ignoring the issue here. Martinez and Wainwright were never designed to be 2-3 starters on this club. Mikolas was expected to make a full recovery from his surgery and that seems to be going just fine. His issue is not with his forearm. It's a shoulder strain from opening up too much early in the spring. The shoulder is kinetically connected to his surgery but there is no concern about Tommy John or lingering issues post surgery. He just went too hard on his shoulder too fast. Btu, he's throwing now and going through his own spring training. We'll see him in a 3-4 weeks.

Kim was an excellent starter for the Cardinals last season and is due back within a week. People have forgotten he exists because he didn't start the season with the club.

So... yeah, if you take out two of the Cardinals top 4 starters and then move everyone down 2 notches, they aren't good enough. If you assume that the starters they are missing won't be healthy all season, then they aren't good enough. But there's no good reason to assume that other than pessimism.

Now, I know what you'll say -- the Cardinals should not have counted on Mikolas being healthy! Obviously he wasn't going to pitch this season! First, that was not at all obvious, since he came to camp completely healthy and all his reports over the winter were very positive. Secondly, even if you assumed that to be true, that's why the club has Reyes and Ponce and Gant and Oviedo and Rondon and Thompson and Libertatore and Columbus, OH native Parsons and if they wanted to Helsley and Cabrera. They've built their rotation internally with huge success for over a decade now. It's not going to chance and shouldn't change.

[begin rant]
Also... you silly, fickle, short-attention-span Cardinals fans. So many of you (in general, not necessarily here) spit vile at me for writing about how the Cardinals should move on from Wainwright and upgrade the starter spot. It wasn't depth they lacked, I argued. It was high-end upside beyond Flaherty, I argued. You would have thought I suggested clubbing baby seals with rocks. No way! Couldn't do it! The club had to bring him back for the sentiment of it all. Couldn't possibly let him walk!

Don't start complaining now about the club not upgrading the rotation if you were one of the ones who couldn't let go of Wainwright. They were going to sign a starter and they did. Waino is the guy you all wanted and the front office knew it and so that's who you get. So, like it and stop complaining because you got what you wanted. [/end rant]
Fixed.





Personally I don't care that we didn't sign any more pitching; but if the pitching is not effective they have to be willing to make a mid-season move if an opportunity presents itself.

I do like posting pictures of Big John Studd.

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Re: Cardinals still need 1 more Studd Starter....

Post by Fat Strat »

Because of financial uncertainty, they punted any real upgrade (other than Arenado) into the season. That's pretty obvious. If the DH would have come to the NL, they would have signed another OF'er/DH type, but when the PA nixed that, they just kicked their upgrades to the trade deadline to see what happened with fans and with their depth.

If the rotation doesn't right itself -- I personally think it will be fine -- then they'll make a move. More likely, they go after an OF'er. They'll consider turning to Thompson or Liberatore before getting a starter. (And that after they try out Oviedo and Rondon). Also, Oviedo looked great yesterday. Huge improvement over last year.

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Cardinals still need 1 more Studd Starter....

Post by CardsofSTL »

I've been high on Oviedo for a while. And I agree with your analysis of what the Cardinals will probably do. But garments must still be rended.

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Re: Cardinals still need 1 more Studd Starter....

Post by Joe Shlabotnik »

CardsofSTL wrote:
April 12 21, 9:06 am
But garments must still be rended.
Rent. Garments must be rent.

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Cardinals still need 1 more Studd Starter....

Post by CardsofSTL »

Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
April 12 21, 9:23 am
CardsofSTL wrote:
April 12 21, 9:06 am
But garments must still be rended.
Rent. Garments must be rent.
Your knowledge of really really old words surpasses mine; because you are really really old.

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