Better Defensive Catcher: Yadi or Pudge

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GeddyWrox
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Better Defensive Catcher: Yadi or Pudge

Post by GeddyWrox »

Interesting question on a friend's facebook page. Is Yadi the best defensive catcher of all time? Pudge is the only one who is in the running against him with these guys. Pudge has more GGs but I tend to think GGs can be skewed by offensive up side.

Thoughts?? Was Pudge a better defensive catcher than Yadi, or nah.

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Re: Better Defensive Catcher: Yadi or Pudge

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Pudge had 320 dWAR over 20 seasons per fangraphs. Yadi has 371.7 dWAR over 17 seasons. It's far from an exact science but...

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Re: Better Defensive Catcher: Yadi or Pudge

Post by GeddyWrox »

heyzeus wrote:
February 9 21, 10:11 am
Pudge had 320 dWAR over 20 seasons per fangraphs. Yadi has 371.7 dWAR over 17 seasons. It's far from an exact science but...
Is that a cumulative stat? By that, could Yadi's freakish longevity skew that stat?

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Re: Better Defensive Catcher: Yadi or Pudge

Post by Joe Shlabotnik »

GeddyWrox wrote:
February 9 21, 10:27 am
heyzeus wrote:
February 9 21, 10:11 am
Pudge had 320 dWAR over 20 seasons per fangraphs. Yadi has 371.7 dWAR over 17 seasons. It's far from an exact science but...
Is that a cumulative stat? By that, could Yadi's freakish longevity skew that stat?
And what about Yadi's freakish head for the game? He is so on top of things, you almost never see a brain fart. And every once in a while he does something wherre his head is so far into the game it catches everyone else by surprise. Have no idea if Pudge was the same because I didn't watch him day in and day out. Anybody know?

The only time I recall him not getting the right side of the rules in real time was that play a couple of years ago where the ball had gotten past the SS and hit him. He stopped thinking he was out but should have kept going. I'm sure there are others but none come to mind.

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heyzeus
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Re: Better Defensive Catcher: Yadi or Pudge

Post by heyzeus »

GeddyWrox wrote:
February 9 21, 10:27 am
heyzeus wrote:
February 9 21, 10:11 am
Pudge had 320 dWAR over 20 seasons per fangraphs. Yadi has 371.7 dWAR over 17 seasons. It's far from an exact science but...
Is that a cumulative stat? By that, could Yadi's freakish longevity skew that stat?
Yep, that's cumulative. Pudge actually played longer than Yadi has (so far), so that's even more impressive for Yadi to put up such defensive value.

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Re: Better Defensive Catcher: Yadi or Pudge

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heyzeus wrote:
February 9 21, 10:11 am
Pudge had 320 dWAR over 20 seasons per fangraphs. Yadi has 371.7 dWAR over 17 seasons. It's far from an exact science but...
Yadi got a framing boost Pudge never got, correct?

If so, I think that shows Pudge is better... unless you think he was bad at framing. Before framing was added, Yadi was way behind Pudge in WAR.

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Re: Better Defensive Catcher: Yadi or Pudge

Post by heyzeus »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:
February 9 21, 11:28 am
heyzeus wrote:
February 9 21, 10:11 am
Pudge had 320 dWAR over 20 seasons per fangraphs. Yadi has 371.7 dWAR over 17 seasons. It's far from an exact science but...
Yadi got a framing boost Pudge never got, correct?

If so, I think that shows Pudge is better... unless you think he was bad at framing. Before framing was added, Yadi was way behind Pudge in WAR.
I can't easily tell, but it looks like Fangraphs' catcher framing data with the 2008 season. If that's the case, it definitely helps Yadi since Pudge was nearing retirement by then.

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Re: Better Defensive Catcher: Yadi or Pudge

Post by GeddyWrox »

heyzeus wrote:
February 9 21, 11:27 am
GeddyWrox wrote:
February 9 21, 10:27 am
heyzeus wrote:
February 9 21, 10:11 am
Pudge had 320 dWAR over 20 seasons per fangraphs. Yadi has 371.7 dWAR over 17 seasons. It's far from an exact science but...
Is that a cumulative stat? By that, could Yadi's freakish longevity skew that stat?
Yep, that's cumulative. Pudge actually played longer than Yadi has (so far), so that's even more impressive for Yadi to put up such defensive value.
Yeah, by years, but I wonder about innings caught. Yadi is like the terminator. LOL

Dunno if innings caught affect dWAR for catchers, or if it's more just years in service.

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Re: Better Defensive Catcher: Yadi or Pudge

Post by CardsofSTL »

Yadi is the best because he gets a ++ for being a Cardinal. I'll fight you.

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Re: Better Defensive Catcher: Yadi or Pudge

Post by JoeMcKim »

GeddyWrox wrote:
February 9 21, 10:27 am
heyzeus wrote:
February 9 21, 10:11 am
Pudge had 320 dWAR over 20 seasons per fangraphs. Yadi has 371.7 dWAR over 17 seasons. It's far from an exact science but...
Is that a cumulative stat? By that, could Yadi's freakish longevity skew that stat?
Pudge played longer than Molina. I'm a huge Molina fan but Pudge was Yadi before Yadi was Yadi. People talk about Yadi's ability to pick runners off of first base. Ivan was good at that too.

Pickoffs: Pudge 90, Molina 66
Caught Runners Stealing Pudge 661, Molina 350

But this is a rather pointless argument since they were/are both amazing catchers. It's like arguing who was the better CF, Junior or Trout. Who cares they're both great at what they do.

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