5/10/21 Off Day Thread - Are We Good?

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MrCrowesGarden
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Re: 5/10/21 Off Day Thread - Are We Good?

Post by MrCrowesGarden »

heyzeus wrote:
June 9 21, 11:03 am
Big Amoco Sign wrote:
June 9 21, 9:48 am
heyzeus wrote:
June 9 21, 9:23 am
Healthy, we're an above .500 team. I don't know that we're going to be healthy again this season.
When healthy, are we an above .500 team?

I mean Goldy is less productive than Patrick Wisdom this year. . . Sosa and DeJong is a wash basically. Sosa's defense and ability to run out some infield hits makes up for lack of power and defense DeJong gives you.
1. I'll be willing to take a bet that, over a statistically significant sample size this year, Goldy outperforms Patrick Wisdom. Kudos to Wisdom for his big run here though. I always root for the Quad A guys, the 30 year old minor league lifers who only ever get a cup of tea before getting their unconditional release.

2. Sosa to DeJong is not a wash. DeJong has been a 3-4 win player every full season of his career. Sosa's filled in nicely for 25 games, but is not that great of a prospect, particularly with the bat. Simply put, DeJong is a decent chunk of what we're missing. Not as big as Flaherty, but downgrading from better shortstops to less good ones has a direct and ripple effect. Anything that results in more Matt Carpenter starts, even indirectly, is a bad thing.
I guess is DeJong really that great of a hitter either? He will add some pop but is otherwise not much of a hitter (I do realize he is a good fielder but weigh that less than hitting)

I think Goldy will also end up being better than Wisdom but won’t say his numbers end up being in line with his career norms. I hope they do! But he is 33 now, and the chance that he’s washed is pretty good. That’s why I wanted to keep adding after his acquisition in 2019.

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Magneto2.0
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Re: 5/10/21 Off Day Thread - Are We Good?

Post by Magneto2.0 »

Magneto2.0 wrote:
May 10 21, 4:31 pm
I still have a lot of concerns about the pitching. I only trust Flaherty, Gallegos, Reyes (to an extent) and Kim. Waino is what he is now. He'll have games like Sunday, and then clunkers every now and again. He's an innings eater/back of the rotation starter, and that's fine, if you have legit arms in the 1-3 slots and unfortunately we only have 1. I still think we need at least 1 more trustworthy starter. Martinez seems okayish, but his lack of Ks are alarming, even if he's not giving up HRs.

I really like the lineup, I do wish O'Neill and DeJong got on base more. They have a lot of holes in their offensive game that they try to make up for it with power, which I'm not sure can last.

Overall, the team is playing great, but I'm still kinda pessimistic.
Yup.

Magneto2.0
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Re: 5/10/21 Off Day Thread - Are We Good?

Post by Magneto2.0 »

MrCrowesGarden wrote:
June 9 21, 11:41 am
heyzeus wrote:
June 9 21, 11:03 am
Big Amoco Sign wrote:
June 9 21, 9:48 am
heyzeus wrote:
June 9 21, 9:23 am
Healthy, we're an above .500 team. I don't know that we're going to be healthy again this season.
When healthy, are we an above .500 team?

I mean Goldy is less productive than Patrick Wisdom this year. . . Sosa and DeJong is a wash basically. Sosa's defense and ability to run out some infield hits makes up for lack of power and defense DeJong gives you.
1. I'll be willing to take a bet that, over a statistically significant sample size this year, Goldy outperforms Patrick Wisdom. Kudos to Wisdom for his big run here though. I always root for the Quad A guys, the 30 year old minor league lifers who only ever get a cup of tea before getting their unconditional release.

2. Sosa to DeJong is not a wash. DeJong has been a 3-4 win player every full season of his career. Sosa's filled in nicely for 25 games, but is not that great of a prospect, particularly with the bat. Simply put, DeJong is a decent chunk of what we're missing. Not as big as Flaherty, but downgrading from better shortstops to less good ones has a direct and ripple effect. Anything that results in more Matt Carpenter starts, even indirectly, is a bad thing.
I guess is DeJong really that great of a hitter either? He will add some pop but is otherwise not much of a hitter (I do realize he is a good fielder but weigh that less than hitting)

I think Goldy will also end up being better than Wisdom but won’t say his numbers end up being in line with his career norms. I hope they do! But he is 33 now, and the chance that he’s washed is pretty good. That’s why I wanted to keep adding after his acquisition in 2019.
Dejong is a mediocre hitter, for sure. Career OPS+ of 103. His pop is good, but most of his value like you stated comes from his glove.

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SunnyJim
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Re: 5/10/21 Off Day Thread - Are We Good?

Post by SunnyJim »

I asked my brother, a musician, if he thought Dave Navarro was a good or great guitar player the other day.

His response was that Navarro was 'pretty great.'

I think the Cardinals, when healthy are sort of good. If they pick up some pitching they could
even be pretty good.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: 5/10/21 Off Day Thread - Are We Good?

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

For the record I don’t think Goldy is better than Wisdom and never said that. Just illustrating how poorly Goldy has produced. Please re-read the post.

Production is production and Goldy posted 0.6 WAR and Wisdom has twice that in far few PAs.

The point was Goldy’s been bad and way under his projections. Which the team is more than counting on. Probably shouldn’t have mentioned Wisdom if it was going to be misconstrued. Bad on me.

I’m saying that DeJong and Sosa being a wash in the production since DeJong’s absence. If the argument is “better than 500 when healthy” then take in context that they got 114 wRC+ in the absence from Sosa—and have still been bad. DeJong doesn’t get more than that if he was playing instead. I’m not sure anyone could say he would. The point is they’re not good (the team as a whole) either way.

The major gap is Flaherty and the two Kim starts they’ll miss. And maybe Edman being in RF over 2B. I admit that could be a game or two difference over Bader in OF and Edman at 2B.

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Popeye_Card
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Re: 5/10/21 Off Day Thread - Are We Good?

Post by Popeye_Card »

Missing Flaherty, Kim, Mikolas, Hicks, Hudson, Miller, Bader, and DeJong is a lot when the depth of this team is pretty shallow.

When you take a team that projects to win a few games above .500, subtract that many 1-4 WAR players and only have 0-1 WAR type players to replace them? Yeah, you become a team that’s 10+ games under .500.

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Famous Mortimer
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Re: 5/10/21 Off Day Thread - Are We Good?

Post by Famous Mortimer »

heyzeus wrote:
June 9 21, 11:03 am
2. Sosa to DeJong is not a wash. DeJong has been a 3-4 win player every full season of his career. Sosa's filled in nicely for 25 games, but is not that great of a prospect, particularly with the bat. Simply put, DeJong is a decent chunk of what we're missing. Not as big as Flaherty, but downgrading from better shortstops to less good ones has a direct and ripple effect. Anything that results in more Matt Carpenter starts, even indirectly, is a bad thing.
I think the point was, it's been a wash thus far. Sosa's been worth 0.7 fWAR in 35 games, not bad at all for a replacement player, and about what you'd expect from DeJong over the same stretch (in fact, DeJong has also played in 35 games this season, and was worth 0.5 fWAR in them). So, even if he'd not been injured, the performance of the Cardinals would be largely where it is now.

At least, that's what I took from the comment you were replying to. I could be miles off.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: 5/10/21 Off Day Thread - Are We Good?

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

^yep that was my point, you got it. All I meant.

Jedibaracuda
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Re: 5/10/21 Off Day Thread - Are We Good?

Post by Jedibaracuda »

Another unexpected off day due to weather. So may as well pose the question again.

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Jayramball04
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Re: 5/10/21 Off Day Thread - Are We Good?

Post by Jayramball04 »

Good enough to be a .500 team but not very good today ...

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