2021 trade deadline, rumors and all

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dmarx114
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Re: 2021 trade deadline, rumors and all

Post by dmarx114 »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:
August 2 21, 9:44 am
MrCrowesGarden wrote:
August 2 21, 9:28 am
I thought we had to wait and see on deals.
Exactly. Remember when people freaked out over Kaminsky for Moss. Blue Jays may have thought those prospects weren't worth their MLB Pipeline weight (it's about how teams 'value'). Berrios is also an ace level pitcher (as valuable as Scherzer has been this year)--something that was just ignored I guess.

Anyone can mold any of these things to fit some agenda but bottom line: the team used to risk prospects for the now. They exist to be trading chips sometimes. Besides *maybe* Carlson, and barely DeJong, kind of sort of Bader, how many Cardinal hitters have come through the system successfully in a sustainable (3+ years) way, I mean seriously, since Wong/Carpenter? O'Neill was primarily Mariners if he counts. Trade some of these guys sometimes. Delvin Perez could have netted a flat haul a couple of years ago.
The team still risks prospects for the now.

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MrCrowesGarden
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Re: 2021 trade deadline, rumors and all

Post by MrCrowesGarden »

dmarx114 wrote:
August 2 21, 9:56 am
Big Amoco Sign wrote:
August 2 21, 9:44 am
MrCrowesGarden wrote:
August 2 21, 9:28 am
I thought we had to wait and see on deals.
Exactly. Remember when people freaked out over Kaminsky for Moss. Blue Jays may have thought those prospects weren't worth their MLB Pipeline weight (it's about how teams 'value'). Berrios is also an ace level pitcher (as valuable as Scherzer has been this year)--something that was just ignored I guess.

Anyone can mold any of these things to fit some agenda but bottom line: the team used to risk prospects for the now. They exist to be trading chips sometimes. Besides *maybe* Carlson, and barely DeJong, kind of sort of Bader, how many Cardinal hitters have come through the system successfully in a sustainable (3+ years) way, I mean seriously, since Wong/Carpenter? O'Neill was primarily Mariners if he counts. Trade some of these guys sometimes. Delvin Perez could have netted a flat haul a couple of years ago.
The team still risks prospects for the now.
Not nearly enough, though.

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Jocephus
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Re: 2021 trade deadline, rumors and all

Post by Jocephus »

Brewers acquired RHP John Axford from the Blue Jays for cash considerations.

Axford will immediately join the major league roster in his return to the Brewers, where he pitched from 2009-2013 and enjoyed his most success. The 38-year-old last pitched in the majors in 2018 and has been doing TV work for the Blue Jays, but he recently signed a minor league deal with Toronto after hitting 98 mph during the Olympic qualifiers for Team Canada. He had a 0.77 ERA and 15/3 K/BB ratio over 11 2/3 innings in the minors and the Jays ultimately did him a solid sending him back to Milwaukee for a chance to pitch in the majors again. It's a really great story.
Source: Adam McCalvy on Twitter

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Re: 2021 trade deadline, rumors and all

Post by Jocephus »

The Winners and Losers of the 2021 Trade Deadline
by Ben Clemens
August 2, 2021
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-winners ... -deadline/
Head-Scratchers
St. Louis Cardinals
Like the Cubs, the Cardinals started the year with playoff aspirations but saw them fade as the Milwaukee Brewers took flight. Unlike the Cubs, the Cardinals weren’t in a position to trade players on expiring contracts; Adam Wainwright and Yadier Molina are St. Louis icons, and most of the rest of the interesting players on the Cardinals are either young and controllable or old and on long deals.

Still, there were options. Andrew Miller has been excellent since returning from injury, and lefty relievers always draw interest. Kwang Hyun Kim has been effective this year, and fifth starters who can moonlight in relief (he opened 2020 as the team’s closer) fetch good value at the trade deadline. If they wanted to get crazy, Giovanny Gallegos would be sought after.

Instead, they made some strange moves that didn’t help them compete now or build for the future. Lane Thomas felt extraneous given the team’s packed outfield, but Jon Lester isn’t moving the needle when it comes to making the playoffs this year; he’s been quite bad in D.C. this season and projects to be roughly replacement level the rest of the way. J.A. Happ projects marginally better, but he’s also been awful this year, and he cost the team John Gant (not a huge deal) and an interesting relief dart in Evan Sisk.

These trades didn’t sink the Cards’ future, but they didn’t help the present either. You want to be doing something, but these two trades just feel like movement for movement’s sake. With the Brewers getting better this year and the Cubs building for the future, the Cardinals lost on two fronts.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-winners ... -deadline/

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Re: 2021 trade deadline, rumors and all

Post by Famous Mortimer »

So, looks like Cole Hamels is going to the Dodgers. If only Hamels had been available before the season, for just money, the Cardinals could have got him and not needed to trade for a couple of other last-chance-saloon types.

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Re: 2021 trade deadline, rumors and all

Post by Jocephus »

Famous Mortimer wrote:
August 4 21, 8:16 am
So, looks like Cole Hamels is going to the Dodgers. If only Hamels had been available before the season, for just money, the Cardinals could have got him and not needed to trade for a couple of other last-chance-saloon types.
Jon Heyman of MLB Network reports that the Dodgers are nearing a deal with Cole Hamels.

Well that's interesting. Hamels apparently impressed during his showcase in July, and unsurprisingly waited until after the trade deadline to pick a new team. The 37-year-old made just one appearance in 2020 for Atlanta, but the year before that he struck out 143 hitters in 141 innings with a 3.87 ERA for the Cubs. Hamels will need to rebuild his arm strength, but could be an option for the Dodgers over the final month of the season. It's worth a shot.

Source: Jon Heyman on Twitter
Aug 4, 2021, 9:56 AM ET
emphasis mine

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Re: 2021 trade deadline, rumors and all

Post by MinorLeagueGuy »

Jocephus wrote:
August 4 21, 8:21 am
Famous Mortimer wrote:
August 4 21, 8:16 am
So, looks like Cole Hamels is going to the Dodgers. If only Hamels had been available before the season, for just money, the Cardinals could have got him and not needed to trade for a couple of other last-chance-saloon types.
Jon Heyman of MLB Network reports that the Dodgers are nearing a deal with Cole Hamels.

Well that's interesting. Hamels apparently impressed during his showcase in July, and unsurprisingly waited until after the trade deadline to pick a new team. The 37-year-old made just one appearance in 2020 for Atlanta, but the year before that he struck out 143 hitters in 141 innings with a 3.87 ERA for the Cubs. Hamels will need to rebuild his arm strength, but could be an option for the Dodgers over the final month of the season. It's worth a shot.

Source: Jon Heyman on Twitter
Aug 4, 2021, 9:56 AM ET
emphasis mine
The obvious answer for the FO once they decided to be lukewarm on additions past Opening Day, was to keep tabs on every veteran that hadnt signed in the Spring. They shouldve kept a revolving door on the (4th and) 5th rotation spot the instant that they knew Miles wasnt going to break camp; and their information regarding his flare-up was that he wouldnt be available until May at the earliest. Because at that point it was only money, and the time it took to build enough strength to toss ~5 innings. Then they got news on Hicks; did nothing to add to the roster. Their excuse about needing anybody who got added to 'build arm strength' was valid in a vacuum. But at that point we were in mid-May... MID-MAY AND IN 1ST PLACE! Lots of games left to play, and no real idea how to get around the loss of Jack... other than to just keep the door open and try try try to get some innings eaten. They didnt do that. Instead they went all in on who was already on the roster; completely ignoring any additions until roughly the All Star break. And with all his rhetoric about protecting prospects, not over-exposing them to situations that they arent ready for, what did Moz do? He shoved Oviedo, Woodford, etc onto the MLB roster to do exactly what they preach against; a sign of flailing. Then comes the 10-ton straw dropped smack dab onto the camels back; the deadline moves. In a complete 180, the FO added 2 arms that wont be employed by any team in 2022. Thus saving the young arms from further mileage at the major league level, you dont need to worry about pitch counts with Happ and Lester. Its been a confusing year for the FO.. Are the fans confused? Yes, but we are most of the time when the team decides to do things that are surprising. This year, I think the FO found a way to confuse themselves.. Which doesnt bode well when we expect all of them to just keep the jobs that they were so poor at in 2021.

Jedibaracuda
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Re: 2021 trade deadline, rumors and all

Post by Jedibaracuda »

It still pisses me off that the Dodgers got Danny Duffy for practically nothing. Meanwhile, Mo is overpaying for the corpses of Happ and Lester.

Spider John
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Re: 2021 trade deadline, rumors and all

Post by Spider John »

Famous Mortimer wrote:
August 4 21, 8:16 am
So, looks like Cole Hamels is going to the Dodgers. If only Hamels had been available before the season, for just money, the Cardinals could have got him and not needed to trade for a couple of other last-chance-saloon types.
JUST MONEY? You blaspheme, sir.

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Re: 2021 trade deadline, rumors and all

Post by Spider John »

Jocephus wrote:
August 2 21, 11:05 am
Brewers acquired RHP John Axford from the Blue Jays for cash considerations.

Axford will immediately join the major league roster in his return to the Brewers, where he pitched from 2009-2013 and enjoyed his most success. The 38-year-old last pitched in the majors in 2018 and has been doing TV work for the Blue Jays, but he recently signed a minor league deal with Toronto after hitting 98 mph during the Olympic qualifiers for Team Canada. He had a 0.77 ERA and 15/3 K/BB ratio over 11 2/3 innings in the minors and the Jays ultimately did him a solid sending him back to Milwaukee for a chance to pitch in the majors again. It's a really great story.
Source: Adam McCalvy on Twitter
Aaaand now he's out for the season with an elbow problem.

I hope the Cardinal FO noticed that the Dodgers didn't stop adding help even though they had made a big trade already.

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