9/26 GDT: Cardinals(Woodford) @ Cubs(Thompson) 1:20 PM CT

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Popeye_Card
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Re: 9/26 GDT: Cardinals(Woodford) @ Cubs(Thompson) 1:20 PM CT

Post by Popeye_Card »

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
September 28 21, 8:34 am
No way would I want to get rid of the IFR. Like Joe said, it would become an abomination of outs. Think about the situation where runners are 1st and 2nd, no outs, and batter hits a fly ball to the pitcher.

SS moves in to make the catch and is sitting under it (somewhere in the middle of the infield).

What do the runners on 1 and 2 do:

Go halfway? SS catches and at a minimum doubles off the runner on 2nd.
Go 1/4ish of the way? I think SS still catches it and doubles off the runner at 2nd.
Stay on the bag? SS drops and gets the force at 3rd and almost assuredly 2nd.

Without momentum (moving on the hit) the runner from 1st (or wherever) is going to have a tough time getting to the next base before the defense can turn 2.

We run into situations All. The. Time. in little league where we have a runner on 1st (or 1st and 2nd) and the batter hits it to shallow OF. Because kids are 8/9 they're not bombing many balls well beyond the infield so the outfielders are playing shallow, maybe 10-20 feet off the infield. If the runner on 1st (or 2nd), goes halfway on a flyball/even line drive to shallow OF, they can get doubled off pretty easily. If they stay near the bag to prevent being doubled off, they risk being forced out at the next bag if the OF doesn't make the catch....which is at least better than being doubled off.

Same principle with the IFR. There shouldn't be a situation where a hit ball overwhelmingly favors the defense turning a DP, imo, except a ground ball that requires the defense to make good plays.
At the MLB level, I just view it as a penalty for popping up in a crucial AB. Just the same as grounding into a DP. You also put some pressure on the defense to make a decision - take the sure out, or gamble for two.

Little league level, I could buy your argument especially for fly balls to shallow OF. But also at that level you have a higher chance for a throwing error to get 2 outs.

I mostly say this because any time you make the defense have to make plays, I think it improves the game. The IFF is generally a very boring play.

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Re: 9/26 GDT: Cardinals(Woodford) @ Cubs(Thompson) 1:20 PM CT

Post by CardsofSTL »

I think they should keep the Infield Fly Rule but add a bunch of antiquated language to it's description so that no one actually knows what it is.

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Re: 9/26 GDT: Cardinals(Woodford) @ Cubs(Thompson) 1:20 PM CT

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

Popeye_Card wrote:
September 28 21, 9:41 am
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
September 28 21, 8:34 am
No way would I want to get rid of the IFR. Like Joe said, it would become an abomination of outs. Think about the situation where runners are 1st and 2nd, no outs, and batter hits a fly ball to the pitcher.

SS moves in to make the catch and is sitting under it (somewhere in the middle of the infield).

What do the runners on 1 and 2 do:

Go halfway? SS catches and at a minimum doubles off the runner on 2nd.
Go 1/4ish of the way? I think SS still catches it and doubles off the runner at 2nd.
Stay on the bag? SS drops and gets the force at 3rd and almost assuredly 2nd.

Without momentum (moving on the hit) the runner from 1st (or wherever) is going to have a tough time getting to the next base before the defense can turn 2.

We run into situations All. The. Time. in little league where we have a runner on 1st (or 1st and 2nd) and the batter hits it to shallow OF. Because kids are 8/9 they're not bombing many balls well beyond the infield so the outfielders are playing shallow, maybe 10-20 feet off the infield. If the runner on 1st (or 2nd), goes halfway on a flyball/even line drive to shallow OF, they can get doubled off pretty easily. If they stay near the bag to prevent being doubled off, they risk being forced out at the next bag if the OF doesn't make the catch....which is at least better than being doubled off.

Same principle with the IFR. There shouldn't be a situation where a hit ball overwhelmingly favors the defense turning a DP, imo, except a ground ball that requires the defense to make good plays.
At the MLB level, I just view it as a penalty for popping up in a crucial AB. Just the same as grounding into a DP. You also put some pressure on the defense to make a decision - take the sure out, or gamble for two.

Little league level, I could buy your argument especially for fly balls to shallow OF. But also at that level you have a higher chance for a throwing error to get 2 outs.

I mostly say this because any time you make the defense have to make plays, I think it improves the game. The IFF is generally a very boring play.
Understand wanting to see the defense make a play, I just don't think it's going to be very exciting because it's such a disadvantage to the runners. Basically the equivalent of a GIDP with Pujols on 1st and Yadi at the plate...in 2021.

Okay, I started looking into it a little more to see if this is an accurate statement or if I'm just making it up....and I think it's pretty accurate. Let's say the average time from a 3B to handle a ball (about the zero time for when runners have to make a decision), throw to 2nd then throw to 1st is about 3.5-4 seconds.

Now reverse that process. Say Pop up to the right side, 10' short of first base right on the line. 1st and 2nd no outs. It's going to take about 3.5-4 seconds to get the force at 3rd then the force at 2nd assuming the 1B intentionally drops the ball.

From a dead standstill and ~10' from 1B, how many runners can get to 2nd within that timeframe? Not many. Hamilton, for reference, runs home to 1st in just over 3.6 seconds (getting to run through the bag).

If the pop up is on the left side, you can see just how dead the runners are based on the video from the game that started this entire discussion. Just no chance.

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Re: 9/26 GDT: Cardinals(Woodford) @ Cubs(Thompson) 1:20 PM CT

Post by ghostrunner »

CardsofSTL wrote:
September 27 21, 12:49 pm
Just seeing this explanation. If Eddings the ump at 2nd didn't know IFR was called, his call would've been the 3rd out, so why call time?

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Re: 9/26 GDT: Cardinals(Woodford) @ Cubs(Thompson) 1:20 PM CT

Post by CardsofSTL »

ghostrunner wrote:
September 28 21, 12:27 pm
CardsofSTL wrote:
September 27 21, 12:49 pm
Just seeing this explanation. If Eddings the ump at 2nd didn't know IFR was called, his call would've been the 3rd out, so why call time?
He's a dumbass.

Also it's crap because the runner thought he was out before the ump made the motion that he was out and continued to run past the bag; he should have been out on the tag.

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Re: 9/26 GDT: Cardinals(Woodford) @ Cubs(Thompson) 1:20 PM CT

Post by haltz »

ghostrunner wrote:
September 28 21, 12:27 pm
CardsofSTL wrote:
September 27 21, 12:49 pm
Just seeing this explanation. If Eddings the ump at 2nd didn't know IFR was called, his call would've been the 3rd out, so why call time?
I think he punched out Ortega, looked up, saw Miller signaling IFF at home plate, realizes he screwed up and calls time.

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Re: 9/26 GDT: Cardinals(Woodford) @ Cubs(Thompson) 1:20 PM CT

Post by haltz »

Popeye_Card wrote:
September 28 21, 9:41 am
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:
September 28 21, 8:34 am
No way would I want to get rid of the IFR. Like Joe said, it would become an abomination of outs. Think about the situation where runners are 1st and 2nd, no outs, and batter hits a fly ball to the pitcher.

SS moves in to make the catch and is sitting under it (somewhere in the middle of the infield).

What do the runners on 1 and 2 do:

Go halfway? SS catches and at a minimum doubles off the runner on 2nd.
Go 1/4ish of the way? I think SS still catches it and doubles off the runner at 2nd.
Stay on the bag? SS drops and gets the force at 3rd and almost assuredly 2nd.

Without momentum (moving on the hit) the runner from 1st (or wherever) is going to have a tough time getting to the next base before the defense can turn 2.

We run into situations All. The. Time. in little league where we have a runner on 1st (or 1st and 2nd) and the batter hits it to shallow OF. Because kids are 8/9 they're not bombing many balls well beyond the infield so the outfielders are playing shallow, maybe 10-20 feet off the infield. If the runner on 1st (or 2nd), goes halfway on a flyball/even line drive to shallow OF, they can get doubled off pretty easily. If they stay near the bag to prevent being doubled off, they risk being forced out at the next bag if the OF doesn't make the catch....which is at least better than being doubled off.

Same principle with the IFR. There shouldn't be a situation where a hit ball overwhelmingly favors the defense turning a DP, imo, except a ground ball that requires the defense to make good plays.
At the MLB level, I just view it as a penalty for popping up in a crucial AB. Just the same as grounding into a DP. You also put some pressure on the defense to make a decision - take the sure out, or gamble for two.

Little league level, I could buy your argument especially for fly balls to shallow OF. But also at that level you have a higher chance for a throwing error to get 2 outs.

I mostly say this because any time you make the defense have to make plays, I think it improves the game. The IFF is generally a very boring play.
I was thinking the same thing - just scrap the rule, it sounds kinda fun. Then I imagined losing a playoff game this way and I don't like it.

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Re: 9/26 GDT: Cardinals(Woodford) @ Cubs(Thompson) 1:20 PM CT

Post by ghostrunner »

haltz wrote:
September 28 21, 12:46 pm
ghostrunner wrote:
September 28 21, 12:27 pm
CardsofSTL wrote:
September 27 21, 12:49 pm
Just seeing this explanation. If Eddings the ump at 2nd didn't know IFR was called, his call would've been the 3rd out, so why call time?
I think he punched out Ortega, looked up, saw Miller signaling IFF at home plate, realizes he screwed up and calls time.
Ah, yeah. Probably true.

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