What Comes Next?

Discuss all things Cardinals Baseball
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sighyoung
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Re: What Comes Next?

Post by sighyoung »

heyzeus wrote:
October 8 21, 11:32 am
Superorganism wrote:
October 8 21, 11:17 am
Bring Scherzer home!
I endorse this, even though Parkway Central still sucks.
He could be signed AND the school could be set ablaze.

But I really doubt the Cardinals go beyond inquiries here.

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AdmiralKird
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Re: What Comes Next?

Post by AdmiralKird »

Sign Scherzer for 3, trade him in the third year for cash and top tier prospects. Get a good SP in ~5 years that's league minimum to make up the cost with the budget philosophy.

phins
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Re: What Comes Next?

Post by phins »

pioneer98 wrote:
October 7 21, 8:14 pm
We have potential rotation upside with healthy returns of Flaherty and Hudson along with making starters out of Reyes and Hicks.

They strengthened the bullpen with bargain bin pickups this year and I hope they don’t drop big years/dollars there. Learn from the Cecil debacle.
I'm simply quoting your post to pick on this topic. Jordan Hicks has a career high of 78 IP in his career, and honestly wasn't good. He threw 77 2/3 IP in the majors and then blew out the next year. Then threw 13 innings total the year after missing the entire year in 2020. This talk of Jordan Hicks being a starting pitcher next year is silly (from a FO perspective, not you personally).

Alex Reyes just set his career high of IP at 72 1/3. In the second half of this season, he had a 5.52 ERA as a reliever, backed up by a 5.59 FIP. To put it kindly, he was a bad pitcher, made far worse by the fact he was a reliever. NL relievers had a 4.19 ERA, with a 4.29 FIP. Reyes walked 6.47 batters per 9/IP, after walking 6.41 in a small sample last year. He's never been under 4 in a season where he pitched any real innings and is always hurt.

Relying on Alex Reyes in any role other than multi-inning middle reliever is setting everyone up for failure.

On Paper bullpen:
Hicks- Closer
Gallegos- Fireman
Luis Garcia- Setup
Cabrera- Lefty flamethrower
Reyes- Multi-inning reliever
Helsley- Phins' frustrater
Whitley- Middle reliever

TJ McFarland or another lefty is a good guess in the bullpen, but I'd love to see a dude brought in here and push Whitley or Helsley down as depth.

On Paper Rotation:
Flaherty
Waino
Hudson
Mikolas

Woodford- Minor league Depth
Liberator- Later in season
Thompson- Not as high on him, hope he gets another year of seasoning

This team BADLY needs another starting pitcher in my mind. I'd be on the lookout for a veteran reclamation type who will accept a minor league deal as well, because I believe you need to plan for needing eight starters in a season and I don't see a viable amount of starting pitching depth with the Cardinals.

From there, I'd be looking for a corner bench bat who hits left-handed. I'd also be looking for a backup catcher because Knizner has proven over two seasons he isn't close to it. He cost the team an entire win on his own. Justin Williams nearly a loss of a win, so you don't want to rely on him again.

This team needs one big starting pitcher, a veteran depth starter who will fill a role or a minor league deal, and some actual depth bats. I don't know that I'd give up those things for a good, not great, SS like Story.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: What Comes Next?

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

Socnorb11 wrote:
October 8 21, 3:30 pm

You guys, keeping Kolten Wong and signing a mid-tier starting pitcher wasn't going to change the Cardinals from a wild card team to a juggernaut capable of beating the Dodgers and Giants and Astros.
Giants aren't a juggernaut. They were like a 5% chance of making playoffs this year at the start.

And are the perfect example of why Mo is a bad President of Baseball operations.

They are so much more advanced in matchup-oriented baseball and gaming of the farm/rule five and prospect value than Cardinals. Farhan would have been such a big upgrade. Wish DeWitt went after him first.

Red Sox are another example of a team turning around without a teardown. Moneyball era = no excuses for Mo to do better with the payroll and money the Cardinals have.

Aim higher than Wild Card.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: What Comes Next?

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

phins wrote:
October 8 21, 10:23 pm
On Paper Rotation:
Flaherty
Waino
Hudson
Mikolas

This team BADLY needs another starting pitcher in my mind. I'd be on the lookout for a veteran reclamation type who will accept a minor league deal as well, because I believe you need to plan for needing eight starters in a season and I don't see a viable amount of starting pitching depth with the Cardinals.
That can't be the rotation. Just cringe looking at it. Hudson is overrated. I don't like this team relying on contact pitching so heavily. More strikeout guys please. Or guys with ultra-consistency. "Reclamation project" is the last thing this team needs IMO. We need proven guys.

I am on the Stroman train, if we have to get another contact pitcher. He seems to be a Mike Leake type move this team could actually go for. His low homer rate is something Mo should really be into. He's basically Waino's 2021 output exactly.

My plan would be this:

FA Priority:
Mad Max
Stroman
Greinke

Not sure I look at any infielder. I love Carlos Correa and Corey Seager. They would be fun consistency on this team. I think Sosa and DeJong are huge question marks. Sosa repeating. Even Edman repeating any success seems slim. I see a dip with them and Waino. So we need to make up ground. Molina could also just fall off. Carlson likely goes from 2.5 WAR to 3.5 WAR. O'Neill may dip a bit too. Goldy too. 2B/SS is the spot to inject some consistency and potential boost. Look for Gorman to be the guy that makes up for some of the dips in offense.
Last edited by Big Amoco Sign on October 11 21, 10:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

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CardsofSTL
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Re: What Comes Next?

Post by CardsofSTL »

I was really impressed when I saw Stroman in person in Cincy this past season...I could get behind that kind of a pick up for sure.

dmarx114
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Re: What Comes Next?

Post by dmarx114 »

There was an article in the Athletic today projecting Stroman to get around 4/$80mm. I think that's on the low side. But if that's what he costs, I think that's in our budget. That said, I have doubts we would win a bidding war against the Mets for Stroman.

phins
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Re: What Comes Next?

Post by phins »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:
October 11 21, 10:36 am
phins wrote:
October 8 21, 10:23 pm
On Paper Rotation:
Flaherty
Waino
Hudson
Mikolas

This team BADLY needs another starting pitcher in my mind. I'd be on the lookout for a veteran reclamation type who will accept a minor league deal as well, because I believe you need to plan for needing eight starters in a season and I don't see a viable amount of starting pitching depth with the Cardinals.
That can't be the rotation. Just cringe looking at it. Hudson is overrated. I don't like this team relying on contact pitching so heavily. More strikeout guys please. Or guys with ultra-consistency. "Reclamation project" is the last thing this team needs IMO. We need proven guys.

I am on the Stroman train, if we have to get another contact pitcher. He seems to be a Mike Leake type move this team could actually go for. His low homer rate is something Mo should really be into. He's basically Waino's 2021 output exactly.

My plan would be this:

FA Priority:
Mad Max
Stroman
Greinke

Not sure I look at any infielder. I love Carlos Correa and Corey Seager. They would be fun consistency on this team. I think Sosa and DeJong are huge question marks. Sosa repeating. Even Edman repeating any success seems slim. I see a dip with them and Waino. So we need to make up ground. Molina could also just fall off. Carlson likely goes from 2.5 WAR to 3.5 WAR. O'Neill may dip a bit too. Goldy too. 2B/SS is the spot to inject some consistency and potential boost. Look for Gorman to be the guy that makes up for some of the dips in offense.
I must not have articulated my point very well. The capitalization I thought emphasized that I believe we need another starting pitcher, but perhaps not. The reclamation starter is in addition to a stud FA starting pitcher pickup. In addition to. I wouldn't stop at one signing.

Expecting a nearly 50% increase in WAR from Carlson is a big ask. He might get there, but development isn't always linear like that.

The place to improve this team is at the top of the rotation in my view, as, like you said, we have a lot of internal options for position players.

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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: What Comes Next?

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

Yeah I just think Carlson was progressing nicely. His peripherals are good. I am hoping his power (I keep knocking him for his crappy slugging from April to September) at the end of the year sticks more. If it does, then he can increase his WAR. He's got to improve his OF defense a bit too.

@phins curious how you feel about Stroman.

Socnorb11
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Re: What Comes Next?

Post by Socnorb11 »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:
October 11 21, 10:23 am
Socnorb11 wrote:
October 8 21, 3:30 pm

You guys, keeping Kolten Wong and signing a mid-tier starting pitcher wasn't going to change the Cardinals from a wild card team to a juggernaut capable of beating the Dodgers and Giants and Astros.
Giants aren't a juggernaut. They were like a 5% chance of making playoffs this year at the start.

And are the perfect example of why Mo is a bad President of Baseball operations.

They are so much more advanced in matchup-oriented baseball and gaming of the farm/rule five and prospect value than Cardinals. Farhan would have been such a big upgrade. Wish DeWitt went after him first.

Red Sox are another example of a team turning around without a teardown. Moneyball era = no excuses for Mo to do better with the payroll and money the Cardinals have.

Aim higher than Wild Card.
I'd buy most of that.

The Red Sox are a perfect example of what I've been saying. They can afford to flush money down the toilet on guys like Chris Sale. They can afford to not make impact trades at the deadline. They have some room for error, because they've done such a good job of drafting and developing players. That's the key to all of it. It's why the Cardinals come up short. I'm more than happy to put that on Mo.

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