Stroman Watch (p. 4 Stroman to Cubs)

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dmarx114
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Re: Stroman Watch

Post by dmarx114 »

Magneto2.0 wrote:
December 2 21, 7:16 pm
mikechamp wrote:
December 2 21, 12:49 pm
Socnorb11 wrote:
December 2 21, 12:16 pm
The difference between the Cardinals and every other playoff contender isn't Stroman. The difference is that every other playoff contender has elite talent on their roster that they drafted and/or developed. Every team. The Cardinals do not.
I know he is past his prime now, but I would argue Yadi was considered an elite catcher at some point during his career.

Jack Flaherty isn't too shabby, either.
Matt Carpenter as well

But as far as of recent, Flaherty is the only one that has produced an elite level season that we drafted. He has elite level talent, but he's only done it once. O'neill wasn't drafted by us, but so he doesn't count. We have to see how Carlson turns out.

I do like quite a few of the players in our system now.
O’Neill doesn’t count as being “developed?”

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InvincibleCakeEater
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Re: Stroman Watch

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dmarx114 wrote:
December 2 21, 8:30 pm
O’Neill doesn’t count as being “developed?”
He had twice been a top 100 prospect and had already advanced to AAA when he was acquired. Saying the Cardinals developed him is stretching it.

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haltz
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Re: Stroman Watch (p. 4 Stroman to Cubs)

Post by haltz »

If O'Neill counts then Wainwright counts too.

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Stroman Watch (p. 4 Stroman to Cubs)

Post by CardsofSTL »

[expletive] the Cubs.

dmarx114
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Re: Stroman Watch (p. 4 Stroman to Cubs)

Post by dmarx114 »

heyzeus wrote:
December 2 21, 3:32 pm
MrCrowesGarden wrote:
December 2 21, 3:18 pm
If ever there was a year to shove, this was it. Maybe that’s my frustration this time. I don’t think I’ll get my hopes up again.
Exactly this.

As you allude, we have a very good core, with obvious ways to improve, and a (now largely gone) free agent pool deep in talent at the areas we needed. Yadi and Waino are probably retiring, and Arenado and Goldy are past 30 and thus will be less sure things to produce 4+ WAR every year going forward. The shortstop position was pretty awful, and we clearly need 1 but probably 2 quality starting pitchers.

We had oodles of money coming off the books. Fowler, Cmart, Miller, Carpenter.

What a great year to go for it! Shoot for a 95 win team. That was definitely achievable.

Instead, we get the okayness of Matz, and a big raise for Waino. Yes, he had a great year in 2021, but was there really a risk he would go elsewhere if we didn't give him a $10mil raise?
I wish DeWitt had the attitude of "We have a really good core, I am going to spend an extra $25mm to go from 91 wins to 95 wins", but that's not how he thinks. He's not going to spend $25mm more when 91 wins might be good enough to win the World Series anyway. Just like 88 was good enough in 2021.

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MrCrowesGarden
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Re: Stroman Watch (p. 4 Stroman to Cubs)

Post by MrCrowesGarden »

It probably would be better to build the team off of another statistic then since not all 88-win teams are the same. Hitting still most correlates with postseason success, followed by pitching. There’s almost no correlation with defense.

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Re: Stroman Watch (p. 4 Stroman to Cubs)

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cardsfantx
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Re: Stroman Watch (p. 4 Stroman to Cubs)

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That’s a bold move cotton

Injured and when he came back was not good

Not a SO pitcher and was walking more than normal, and control is his calling card.

I’d have not opted out, and tried to prove myself healthy/better

I don’t want him with the cards, unless it’s as a #5 back end guy on a prove it 1 year type deal around 10 mil, which he obv won’t take as he turned down double that.

I just don’t think his market will be as robust as he thinks it will be.

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Re: Stroman Watch (p. 4 Stroman to Cubs)

Post by Magneto2.0 »

I think he's probably banking on the market not being that great for starting pitching

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Re: Stroman Watch (p. 4 Stroman to Cubs)

Post by Transmogrified Tiger »

cardsfantx wrote:
November 4 23, 10:58 am
That’s a bold move cotton

Injured and when he came back was not good

Not a SO pitcher and was walking more than normal, and control is his calling card.

I’d have not opted out, and tried to prove myself healthy/better

I don’t want him with the cards, unless it’s as a #5 back end guy on a prove it 1 year type deal around 10 mil, which he obv won’t take as he turned down double that.

I just don’t think his market will be as robust as he thinks it will be.
The starting point is that trying to understand the thoughts in Marcus Stroman's head is a very dangerous game and doctors do not recommend it. But to dabble in those waters I would guess the calculus is he will get less AAV than he would have by opting in, but sufficient years that he locks in more longer term certainty than he would have had otherwise. Or to put hypotheticals out there, instead of getting 21 million next year and a 2/25 deal afterwards, he might be able to get 3/51 by hitting the market a year younger.

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