Bullpen Decisions
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Bullpen Decisions
I find it strange that managers are very inconsistent when it comes to decision making with regards to their bullpen. Let's use last night's Cards-Mets game for example. After the game, Oli was asked about why he went to Cabrera to face Escobar with the bases loaded and 1 out. Oli said he actually didn't like that match up, and wanted to use Cabrera against McNeil a batter later, but because Pallante was soooooo wild, he had no choice. So lefty/righty match ups were driving Oli's decision as to when to remove Pallante.
But why does Oli (or any other manager) not use this same logic when making decisions later in the game? Lets look at the 8th inning of last night's game. Was there any thought to take Helsley out to have a lefty face McNeil? (Important note, I am not saying Oli was right or wrong here, I am just pointing out the different ways managers approach their decision making). And once we get to the 9th inning, managers really don't care about match ups. It's just "Gallegos is our closer, and he gets the 9th".
So why do managers care so much about "lefty/righty" in the 6th inning, but not at all in the 8th or 9th?
Now I will interject my opinion:
I think managers should use their best relievers in high leverage situations, and stop focusing so much on the lefty/righty match ups. Use the same approach in the 6th that you would in the 9th. Pallante was 2-0 on Nimmo, walked Canha, then issued a 4 pitch walk to Lindor. But he was allowed to stay in to face Alonso because (and I am paraphrasing) "OMG, it would be way too scary to have Cabrera (a lefty) face Alonso, I need to keep my wild righty in there instead." This mind set is how games can be lost. So memo to Oli and every other manager out there.....make your decisions based on leverage instead of lefty/righty. Manage the 6th like you would the 9th.
But why does Oli (or any other manager) not use this same logic when making decisions later in the game? Lets look at the 8th inning of last night's game. Was there any thought to take Helsley out to have a lefty face McNeil? (Important note, I am not saying Oli was right or wrong here, I am just pointing out the different ways managers approach their decision making). And once we get to the 9th inning, managers really don't care about match ups. It's just "Gallegos is our closer, and he gets the 9th".
So why do managers care so much about "lefty/righty" in the 6th inning, but not at all in the 8th or 9th?
Now I will interject my opinion:
I think managers should use their best relievers in high leverage situations, and stop focusing so much on the lefty/righty match ups. Use the same approach in the 6th that you would in the 9th. Pallante was 2-0 on Nimmo, walked Canha, then issued a 4 pitch walk to Lindor. But he was allowed to stay in to face Alonso because (and I am paraphrasing) "OMG, it would be way too scary to have Cabrera (a lefty) face Alonso, I need to keep my wild righty in there instead." This mind set is how games can be lost. So memo to Oli and every other manager out there.....make your decisions based on leverage instead of lefty/righty. Manage the 6th like you would the 9th.
Last edited by dmarx114 on May 18 22, 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
- CardsofSTL
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Re: Bullpen Decisions
Managers rely more on match ups early because they don't generally have four or five dominant relievers. Later in the game; your best relievers are depended on to get any batter out. If you are blessed to have a bullpen full of Chapmans or Haders or Helsleys or whoever this season's best arm is; then cool. But it's not very likely.
- Jocephus
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Re: Bullpen Decisions
i guess it's important for users to cement their opinions on the subject so we have a record that we can all refer to when we have disagreements and our opinion was right on a given night. im guessing dmarx has already bookmarked this.CardsofSTL wrote: ↑May 18 22, 9:11 amManagers rely more on match ups early because they don't generally have four or five dominant relievers. Later in the game; your best relievers are depended on to get any batter out. If you are blessed to have a bullpen full of Chapmans or Haders or Helsleys or whoever this season's best arm is; then cool. But it's not very likely.
can't say i care too much right now about oli's bullpen management. the org constructed the roster they think will be successful and oli tries to work with the pieces he has. clearly, there are better (or more reliable) arms than others but as you say, rarely does a team have a bullpen filled with elite arms that can be counted on every single appearance. plus, if the org is so involved with how the team should be utilized on any given night and oli has accepted that then the FO gets equal blame on the losses, not just oli. i personally don't feel like oli has done anything egregious so i feel like this discussion, at this time of oli's ("or any other manager") career, is excessive armchair managing wankery. but hey, that's just me.
- Leroy
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Re: Bullpen Decisions
If starters were real men like back in the day and pitched complete games, we wouldn't have to worry about this.
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Re: Bullpen Decisions
Exactly, deaden the ball completely, eliminate bullpens, and make pitchers go the distance. That'll really increase balls in play.
- Jocephus
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Re: Bullpen Decisions
bring back absurd wind ups tooAWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote: ↑May 18 22, 10:04 amExactly, deaden the ball completely, eliminate bullpens, and make pitchers go the distance. That'll really increase balls in play.
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Re: Bullpen Decisions
Absolutely!Jocephus wrote: ↑May 18 22, 10:08 ambring back absurd wind ups tooAWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote: ↑May 18 22, 10:04 amExactly, deaden the ball completely, eliminate bullpens, and make pitchers go the distance. That'll really increase balls in play.
Outlaw balls thrown over 90 mph as well. Any pitch thrown above 90 is an automatic ball.
- MrCrowesGarden
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Re: Bullpen Decisions
"Now stepping up to the plate, Horse Whinny Jefferson. He's the leading batter on this team, why just yesterday, he hit a ball that almost got out of the infield!"
- Jocephus
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Re: Bullpen Decisions
let conan show you old timey baseball!
- Joe Shlabotnik
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Re: Bullpen Decisions
Here's the thing. If you want rock solid consistency in bullpen performance and manager decision making in a game with such small differences between good and bad results over time, I will guaran-damn-tee you that you will be disappointed no matter what.
A manager who makes all the right moves for all the right reasons is still going to see those plans fail a non-trivial amount of times. That's baseball. It's why they play 150+ games a year. The best teams minimize that variability but STILL get beat 1/3 of the time. Sh!t happens in baseball.
You might as well do what us old men do and yell at some clouds.
A manager who makes all the right moves for all the right reasons is still going to see those plans fail a non-trivial amount of times. That's baseball. It's why they play 150+ games a year. The best teams minimize that variability but STILL get beat 1/3 of the time. Sh!t happens in baseball.
You might as well do what us old men do and yell at some clouds.