5/24 GDT: Blue Jays(Gausman) vs Cardinals(Hicks) 6:45 PM CT

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Jocephus
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Re: 5/24 GDT: Blue Jays(Gausman) vs Cardinals(Hicks) 6:45 PM CT

Post by Jocephus »

im sure the scherzer injury confirmed to the FO they made the right decision and the matz injury was bad luck

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Re: 5/24 GDT: Blue Jays(Gausman) vs Cardinals(Hicks) 6:45 PM CT

Post by Popeye_Card »

Magneto2.0 wrote:
May 24 22, 10:13 pm

Hudson has walked 19 batters and has 22 ks in 40 innings pitched with a 4.88 FIP. He's going to implode at any minute. He needs to be out the rotation asap. I'm not mad at your argument about Hicks may need to be stretched out in AAA instead of the majors, but we really don't have any better options that will clearly give us more innings. They're not gonna push Liberatore.
This has been Hudson's performance his entire career thus far, and he's yet to implode. I don't have any illusions of Hudson being a top-tier starter, but he's perfectly fine as a back-end starter to eat innings and give the team a shot to win on most nights. As long as he's generating ground balls and limiting HR's like he has always done, he'll be a serviceable starter with the Cardinals' defense.

Hicks should be in the bullpen or AAA, and the Cardinals need to bring in an external option as a starter. That's been clear since before spring training, but here we are muddling around again.

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Re: 5/24 GDT: Blue Jays(Gausman) vs Cardinals(Hicks) 6:45 PM CT

Post by Fat_Bulldog »

Find another starter if you can.

I don't care how good of stuff Hicks has, if he has no idea where the ball is going, he probably shouldn't be starting every 5th day.

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Re: 5/24 GDT: Blue Jays(Gausman) vs Cardinals(Hicks) 6:45 PM CT

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

Popeye_Card wrote:
May 25 22, 7:18 am
Magneto2.0 wrote:
May 24 22, 10:13 pm

Hudson has walked 19 batters and has 22 ks in 40 innings pitched with a 4.88 FIP. He's going to implode at any minute. He needs to be out the rotation asap. I'm not mad at your argument about Hicks may need to be stretched out in AAA instead of the majors, but we really don't have any better options that will clearly give us more innings. They're not gonna push Liberatore.
This has been Hudson's performance his entire career thus far, and he's yet to implode. I don't have any illusions of Hudson being a top-tier starter, but he's perfectly fine as a back-end starter to eat innings and give the team a shot to win on most nights. As long as he's generating ground balls and limiting HR's like he has always done, he'll be a serviceable starter with the Cardinals' defense.

Hicks should be in the bullpen or AAA, and the Cardinals need to bring in an external option as a starter. That's been clear since before spring training, but here we are muddling around again.
Hudson had better peripherals in previous seasons.

Guy’s K rate is worse than ever and walk rate is worse than ever. Wheels will fall off if those continue.

DeJong and Wong/Edman save him on GIDPs. Can SS Edman and Gorman do the same for him?

The thing is, Hudson ain’t eating innings like people think. He also taxes the pen. He goes 5 on average. Hicks probably can match that once he’s above 80ish pitch limit. But leaving Hicks out of this, Hudson still taxes the pen.

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Re: 5/24 GDT: Blue Jays(Gausman) vs Cardinals(Hicks) 6:45 PM CT

Post by heyzeus »

Popeye_Card wrote:
May 25 22, 7:18 am
Magneto2.0 wrote:
May 24 22, 10:13 pm

Hudson has walked 19 batters and has 22 ks in 40 innings pitched with a 4.88 FIP. He's going to implode at any minute. He needs to be out the rotation asap. I'm not mad at your argument about Hicks may need to be stretched out in AAA instead of the majors, but we really don't have any better options that will clearly give us more innings. They're not gonna push Liberatore.
This has been Hudson's performance his entire career thus far, and he's yet to implode. I don't have any illusions of Hudson being a top-tier starter, but he's perfectly fine as a back-end starter to eat innings and give the team a shot to win on most nights. As long as he's generating ground balls and limiting HR's like he has always done, he'll be a serviceable starter with the Cardinals' defense.

Hicks should be in the bullpen or AAA, and the Cardinals need to bring in an external option as a starter. That's been clear since before spring training, but here we are muddling around again.
From day one, ownership's plan to essentially not have a 5th starter, and to have a guy who hasn't pitched for two full seasons (and was a reliever before that) learn to be a starter and stretch out while on the job in the majors was: 1) Not a plan 2) that could succeed, but 3) was designed to save ownership money. Pricey guys like Gausman or Rodon Scherzer or Stroman were available. But cheaper guys like Odorizzi or Greinke or Cobb or Wood or Pineda etc etc were available too.

It was predictable that Hicks would get hurt or be ineffective. It was predictable that there'd be another injury. Now it's too late to do anything but a scrap heap reclamation project AGAIN. It's frustrating because with another good starter, say Rodon, this could have been a very good team. But our owners have a formula, and "good" is good enough.

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Re: 5/24 GDT: Blue Jays(Gausman) vs Cardinals(Hicks) 6:45 PM CT

Post by Popeye_Card »

Big Amoco Sign wrote:
May 25 22, 8:15 am
Popeye_Card wrote:
May 25 22, 7:18 am
Magneto2.0 wrote:
May 24 22, 10:13 pm

Hudson has walked 19 batters and has 22 ks in 40 innings pitched with a 4.88 FIP. He's going to implode at any minute. He needs to be out the rotation asap. I'm not mad at your argument about Hicks may need to be stretched out in AAA instead of the majors, but we really don't have any better options that will clearly give us more innings. They're not gonna push Liberatore.
This has been Hudson's performance his entire career thus far, and he's yet to implode. I don't have any illusions of Hudson being a top-tier starter, but he's perfectly fine as a back-end starter to eat innings and give the team a shot to win on most nights. As long as he's generating ground balls and limiting HR's like he has always done, he'll be a serviceable starter with the Cardinals' defense.

Hicks should be in the bullpen or AAA, and the Cardinals need to bring in an external option as a starter. That's been clear since before spring training, but here we are muddling around again.
Hudson had better peripherals in previous seasons.

Guy’s K rate is worse than ever and walk rate is worse than ever. Wheels will fall off if those continue.

DeJong and Wong/Edman save him on GIDPs. Can SS Edman and Gorman do the same for him?

The thing is, Hudson ain’t eating innings like people think. He also taxes the pen. He goes 5 on average. Hicks probably can match that once he’s above 80ish pitch limit. But leaving Hicks out of this, Hudson still taxes the pen.
He did, and unless something drastically changed since his injury he will probably return to those levels. Potentially even improve. So far it is 40 IP in 2022 - I wouldn't draw too many grand conclusions over it.

As far as innings go, he's averaged exactly 5.0 per start. That is 3rd on the staff behind Wainwright (5.9) and Mikolas (6.1). Not great, but not at Hicks' level either (3.5). If he can keep throwing more strikes (which has been improving over his last few starts), he'll get through 6 more often.

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Re: 5/24 GDT: Blue Jays(Gausman) vs Cardinals(Hicks) 6:45 PM CT

Post by Magneto2.0 »

Popeye_Card wrote:
May 25 22, 7:18 am
Magneto2.0 wrote:
May 24 22, 10:13 pm

Hudson has walked 19 batters and has 22 ks in 40 innings pitched with a 4.88 FIP. He's going to implode at any minute. He needs to be out the rotation asap. I'm not mad at your argument about Hicks may need to be stretched out in AAA instead of the majors, but we really don't have any better options that will clearly give us more innings. They're not gonna push Liberatore.
This has been Hudson's performance his entire career thus far, and he's yet to implode. I don't have any illusions of Hudson being a top-tier starter, but he's perfectly fine as a back-end starter to eat innings and give the team a shot to win on most nights. As long as he's generating ground balls and limiting HR's like he has always done, he'll be a serviceable starter with the Cardinals' defense.

Hicks should be in the bullpen or AAA, and the Cardinals need to bring in an external option as a starter. That's been clear since before spring training, but here we are muddling around again.
He's only had 1 real season as a starter. He's only started 17 games in the last 3 years combined. The implosion is eventually gonna come. Almost every pitcher who pitches like him, eventually get bombed out of the league, save for maybe 1 or 2 who hung on by the skin of their teeth.

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Re: 5/24 GDT: Blue Jays(Gausman) vs Cardinals(Hicks) 6:45 PM CT

Post by Big Amoco Sign »

Magneto2.0 wrote:
May 25 22, 9:50 am
Popeye_Card wrote:
May 25 22, 7:18 am
Magneto2.0 wrote:
May 24 22, 10:13 pm

Hudson has walked 19 batters and has 22 ks in 40 innings pitched with a 4.88 FIP. He's going to implode at any minute. He needs to be out the rotation asap. I'm not mad at your argument about Hicks may need to be stretched out in AAA instead of the majors, but we really don't have any better options that will clearly give us more innings. They're not gonna push Liberatore.
This has been Hudson's performance his entire career thus far, and he's yet to implode. I don't have any illusions of Hudson being a top-tier starter, but he's perfectly fine as a back-end starter to eat innings and give the team a shot to win on most nights. As long as he's generating ground balls and limiting HR's like he has always done, he'll be a serviceable starter with the Cardinals' defense.

Hicks should be in the bullpen or AAA, and the Cardinals need to bring in an external option as a starter. That's been clear since before spring training, but here we are muddling around again.
He's only had 1 real season as a starter. He's only started 17 games in the last 3 years combined. The implosion is eventually gonna come. Almost every pitcher who pitches like him, eventually get bombed out of the league, save for maybe 1 or 2 who hung on by the skin of their teeth.
The 2021 version of Carlos Martinez is essentially what Hudson is this year. Groundball reliant, sure, and useful, but eventually the ERA matched (well, exceeded in his case) the FIP. And that 2021 Carlos had a better K/BB.

It took the team 80 innings (twice as much as Hudson now) to boot Carlos.

2021 Carlos: 3/1 K/BB, 4.76 FIP, 50% GB, 0.87 HR rate..............6.23 ERA

The conclusion is that Hudson is extremely lucky.

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Re: 5/24 GDT: Blue Jays(Gausman) vs Cardinals(Hicks) 6:45 PM CT

Post by cardsfantx »

speaking of carols Martinez; saw he was released again.

wonder if there's any interest of signing him to a minor league deal with all our issues/injuries and see if he can figure something out down there.

(yes he's been terrible and released twice this year already)

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Re: 5/24 GDT: Blue Jays(Gausman) vs Cardinals(Hicks) 6:45 PM CT

Post by MrCrowesGarden »

I think Hudson can be passable as a 5th starter, but that's it. I think the Cardinals see him as more of a 3. There's definitely a playing with fire element to Hudson. Fortunately, Mikolas has been pretty good this year, so that's mitigated some of it, but the pitching staff by and large is still bad.

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