He left out TikTok Superstar.sighyoung wrote: ↑August 31 22, 12:35 pmGood points.mikechamp wrote: ↑August 31 22, 12:30 pmI think the following intangibles will also help Votto get inducted:
Regarded as a good guy, very approachable, ambassador of the game
Pretty media friendly
One team guy (right or wrong, it tends to earn guys points with the writers)
Consider what his stats would have looked like if he had played for a more consistently good franchise
Steve Adams' NL Central comments
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Re: Steve Adams' NL Central comments
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Re: Steve Adams' NL Central comments
I thought he'd get in but I wanted to check his comps and other numbers.sighyoung wrote: ↑August 31 22, 12:33 pmI think he'll get in, but I think it will take a while. He's hurt by lack of visibility due to playing in Cincinnati during an era of few playoff appearances and little playoff success. Higher counting stats would really help him. Better teammates around him would likely have goosed those stats (although, admittedly, he plays in a bandbox). Personally, I think he's a great player and merits inclusion.Famous Mortimer wrote: ↑August 31 22, 11:45 amI think that's just the stat that speaks to his incredible talent the easiest (this is just a chat, bear in mind, he doesn't have the time to go deep into the figures).
I think his MVP, his stats and his longevity will see him into the Hall, pretty easily.
Bref lists his comps as Berkman, Derek Lee, Matt Holliday. Olerud and Helton came up as comps, too.
A 16 year career isn't short by any stretch; median games by a non pitcher is around 2150 so he should clear that. Median fWAR is 62 he's at 57. His MVP and his runner up will certainly help him. I think he'll definitely get in, I just thought that was an odd stat to single out to say "yep, automatic."
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Re: Steve Adams' NL Central comments
++ I definitely understand.vinsanity wrote: ↑August 31 22, 1:44 pmI thought he'd get in but I wanted to check his comps and other numbers.sighyoung wrote: ↑August 31 22, 12:33 pmI think he'll get in, but I think it will take a while. He's hurt by lack of visibility due to playing in Cincinnati during an era of few playoff appearances and little playoff success. Higher counting stats would really help him. Better teammates around him would likely have goosed those stats (although, admittedly, he plays in a bandbox). Personally, I think he's a great player and merits inclusion.Famous Mortimer wrote: ↑August 31 22, 11:45 amI think that's just the stat that speaks to his incredible talent the easiest (this is just a chat, bear in mind, he doesn't have the time to go deep into the figures).
I think his MVP, his stats and his longevity will see him into the Hall, pretty easily.
Bref lists his comps as Berkman, Derek Lee, Matt Holliday. Olerud and Helton came up as comps, too.
A 16 year career isn't short by any stretch; median games by a non pitcher is around 2150 so he should clear that. Median fWAR is 62 he's at 57. His MVP and his runner up will certainly help him. I think he'll definitely get in, I just thought that was an odd stat to single out to say "yep, automatic."
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Re: Steve Adams' NL Central comments
I was watching the Reds feed last night and they had Votto on for a few innings. He was quite intense, and seemed to want to discuss an overarching theory of baseball and his own part in it. I wish he'd relaxed a little and just chatted - Wainwright is maybe the best current player interviewee I've ever seen, and I'm surprised that Votto isn't anywhere near his level, at least on that example.
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Re: Steve Adams' NL Central comments
That's surprising to me, they had him mic'd up for the Field of Dreams game and he came across pretty laid back.Famous Mortimer wrote: ↑September 1 22, 9:31 amI was watching the Reds feed last night and they had Votto on for a few innings. He was quite intense, and seemed to want to discuss an overarching theory of baseball and his own part in it. I wish he'd relaxed a little and just chatted - Wainwright is maybe the best current player interviewee I've ever seen, and I'm surprised that Votto isn't anywhere near his level, at least on that example.
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And it's amazing how many lawyers are bad at it. Bad at talking, bad at communicating. Not persuasive, not able to clearly articulate a thought. And this is the entire job!
So anyway, I'm not surprised that some players are eloquent and enjoyable interviewees and some are not. Athletes, they're just like us!
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Re: Steve Adams' NL Central comments
I deal with a lot of lawyers, every single day. It's a job that relies on communication, written and oral. Obviously not every lawyer is up in court delivering fiery closing arguments (in fact, even among litigators, you're only actually in court maybe every week or so. And even there, it's usually for a hearing on some mundane motion), but we all have to communicate as the top skill of the job.Famous Mortimer wrote: ↑September 1 22, 9:31 amI was watching the Reds feed last night and they had Votto on for a few innings. He was quite intense, and seemed to want to discuss an overarching theory of baseball and his own part in it. I wish he'd relaxed a little and just chatted - Wainwright is maybe the best current player interviewee I've ever seen, and I'm surprised that Votto isn't anywhere near his level, at least on that example.
And it's amazing how many lawyers are bad at it. Bad at talking, bad at communicating. Not persuasive, not able to clearly articulate a thought. And this is the entire job!
So anyway, I'm not surprised that some players are eloquent and enjoyable interviewees and some are not. Athletes, they're just like us!
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Re: Steve Adams' NL Central comments
Like Transmogrified Tiger said, I've seen him be okay in other circumstances, so it was more a surprise in that instance.
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Re: Steve Adams' NL Central comments
I liked Votto in the booth last night, and I hope he has a spot there when he retires. He talked about himself quite a bit but at the same time he didn't come across as conceited.
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Re: Steve Adams' NL Central comments
Do you think he'll get any penalty for not getting the counting stats while playing in that band box? Honestly just curious on others thoughts since I feel on the fence.sighyoung wrote: ↑August 31 22, 12:33 pmI think he'll get in, but I think it will take a while. He's hurt by lack of visibility due to playing in Cincinnati during an era of few playoff appearances and little playoff success. Higher counting stats would really help him. Better teammates around him would likely have goosed those stats (although, admittedly, he plays in a bandbox). Personally, I think he's a great player and merits inclusion.Famous Mortimer wrote: ↑August 31 22, 11:45 amI think that's just the stat that speaks to his incredible talent the easiest (this is just a chat, bear in mind, he doesn't have the time to go deep into the figures).
I think his MVP, his stats and his longevity will see him into the Hall, pretty easily.