9/17 GM 2 GDT: Reds(Greene) vs Cardinals(Quintana) 6:15 PM CT

Discuss all things Cardinals Baseball
Post Reply
User avatar
Radbird
There's someone in my head but it's not me
Posts: 57435
Joined: April 18 06, 5:08 pm
Location: LF Bleachers @ Busch II

Re: 9/17 GM 2 GDT: Reds(Greene) vs Cardinals(Quintana) 6:15 PM CT

Post by Radbird »


Tags:

Online
User avatar
TigCards
All-Star
Posts: 1421
Joined: May 7 18, 7:34 pm

Re: 9/17 GM 2 GDT: Reds(Greene) vs Cardinals(Quintana) 6:15 PM CT

Post by TigCards »

Is there a running lane rule there ? Not the same as home to first . There is reasonable to outlandish lanes I think ?

User avatar
AdmiralKird
MBA, CPA, CFA, CFP, JD, PE, MD
Posts: 9688
Joined: March 7 07, 4:50 pm
Location: Tycho Crater, Luna

Re: 9/17 GM 2 GDT: Reds(Greene) vs Cardinals(Quintana) 6:15 PM CT

Post by AdmiralKird »

Any runner is out when he:

a. Runs more than 3 feet away from a direct line between bases to avoid being tagged or to hinder a fielder while the runner is advancing or returning to a base.

2. When a play is being made on a runner or batter/runner, he establishes his baseline as directly between his position and the base towards which he is moving.
Knizner didn't run 3 feet outside of the line, but he was looking at the third baseman fielding the ball as he took off. He was the only runner on which a play had to be attempted within reason. At that moment his "established" base path should be a line from that position, outside the diamond, towards home. He then shifted his running path from outside the line to inside the line. Therefore, he should have been called out on the play, regardless of whether or not the throw hit him.

Online
User avatar
TigCards
All-Star
Posts: 1421
Joined: May 7 18, 7:34 pm

Re: 9/17 GM 2 GDT: Reds(Greene) vs Cardinals(Quintana) 6:15 PM CT

Post by TigCards »

AdmiralKird wrote:
September 17 22, 8:48 pm
Any runner is out when he:

a. Runs more than 3 feet away from a direct line between bases to avoid being tagged or to hinder a fielder while the runner is advancing or returning to a base.

2. When a play is being made on a runner or batter/runner, he establishes his baseline as directly between his position and the base towards which he is moving.
Knizner didn't run 3 feet outside of the line, but he was looking at the third baseman fielding the ball as he took off. He was the only runner on which a play had to be attempted within reason. At that moment his "established" base path should be a line from that position, outside the diamond, towards home. He then shifted his running path from outside the line to inside the line. Therefore, he should have been called out on the play, regardless of whether or not the throw hit him.
Thanks

User avatar
Jocephus
99% conan clips
Posts: 63650
Joined: April 18 06, 5:14 pm

Re: 9/17 GM 2 GDT: Reds(Greene) vs Cardinals(Quintana) 6:15 PM CT

Post by Jocephus »


User avatar
Joe Shlabotnik
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 23104
Joined: October 12 06, 2:21 pm
Location: Baseball Ref Bullpen
Contact:

Re: 9/17 GM 2 GDT: Reds(Greene) vs Cardinals(Quintana) 6:15 PM CT

Post by Joe Shlabotnik »

AdmiralKird wrote:
September 17 22, 8:28 pm
Kizner should be out, bad umpiring
From what I saw, no he should not. This isn't first base. The player gets to choose his path to the base. I didn't see Kizner intentionally interfere with the thrown ball. He was safe. Bell was phishing.

User avatar
Joe Shlabotnik
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 23104
Joined: October 12 06, 2:21 pm
Location: Baseball Ref Bullpen
Contact:

Re: 9/17 GM 2 GDT: Reds(Greene) vs Cardinals(Quintana) 6:15 PM CT

Post by Joe Shlabotnik »

AdmiralKird wrote:
September 17 22, 8:48 pm
Any runner is out when he:

a. Runs more than 3 feet away from a direct line between bases to avoid being tagged or to hinder a fielder while the runner is advancing or returning to a base.

2. When a play is being made on a runner or batter/runner, he establishes his baseline as directly between his position and the base towards which he is moving.
Knizner didn't run 3 feet outside of the line, but he was looking at the third baseman fielding the ball as he took off. He was the only runner on which a play had to be attempted within reason. At that moment his "established" base path should be a line from that position, outside the diamond, towards home. He then shifted his running path from outside the line to inside the line. Therefore, he should have been called out on the play, regardless of whether or not the throw hit him.
Nope - not three feet away from the line he established. Not by my reckoning or that of the U1 and U4 who, you must admit, had the better look and angle than any of us. Safe.

Online
User avatar
ghostrunner
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 28733
Joined: April 18 06, 9:40 pm

Re: 9/17 GM 2 GDT: Reds(Greene) vs Cardinals(Quintana) 6:15 PM CT

Post by ghostrunner »


cardstatman
AAA Minor League Player
Posts: 60
Joined: December 28 17, 4:29 pm

Re: 9/17 GM 2 GDT: Reds(Greene) vs Cardinals(Quintana) 6:15 PM CT

Post by cardstatman »

Clearly Knizner was not looking at the 3B when he fielded the baseball. To do so, he would have needed to run while looking backward. However, he did know exactly where the third baseman was going to be setting up for his throw.

He intentionally and immediately set his path about 3 feet inside fair territory. He established that path while the third baseman still had the ball in his hand. The last 60 feet to home he ran in a perfectly straight line.

He did exactly what he was supposed to do to make the play more difficult for the third baseman and catcher.

User avatar
Joe Shlabotnik
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 23104
Joined: October 12 06, 2:21 pm
Location: Baseball Ref Bullpen
Contact:

Re: 9/17 GM 2 GDT: Reds(Greene) vs Cardinals(Quintana) 6:15 PM CT

Post by Joe Shlabotnik »

"Reds Broadcaster Chris Welsh Explains Controversial Final Play in St. Louis"

https://baseballrulesacademy.com/reds-b ... -st-louis/

I don't think Welch has it quite right - as Admiral K quoted, the 3 foot rule is still in effect. But the angle on the play at the link shows that by the time Senzel is up and beginning his throw, Knizner has moved inside the base line. That is the point where the runner's baseline is established. He does then continue to drift further inside while he runs, but never past the three feet he has by rule.

Post Reply