GRB: Describe yourself as a player, and please share how you got the nickname "Prince" Joe Henry.
Joe Henry: Okay, that's after I was injured in organized ball. The injury that I sustained happened to my left knee on a double play. A white kid in the Philadelphia Phillies organization went across the bag and caught my knee. And down I went. That's when the injury occurred. After I was taken to the hospital and was supposedly ready to play again......Once I started playin', I began to favor my knee and still tried to throw that ball across the infield as hard as I had originally.
GRB: And you were a second baseman at that time?
Joe Henry: I was a third baseman. I got away from second base when with the Memphis Red Sox. All the rest of my playin' time was at third base. By continuing to play, I messed up my right arm. People always considered me to have a rifle-like arm. I used to tease around at third base, and knock balls down, and jump up get'em, and hit the first baseman belt-high. It was nothin' but jumpin' across the infield. I messed up my right arm by doing that. So after I was out of baseball in 1954, I played in an all-star game with Mr. Johnson.
GRB: Josh Johnson?
Joe Henry: Josh Johnson. He had a team, and the team was named the Metropolitan All-Stars. We played a game at Stag Park in Belleville. Ted Savage was playin' second base. I played in that game and got about three hits that night but I didn't have any hard plays. I could come in for a ball, pick it up, keep runnin', and then throw the runner out. I could throw it from the side or some other way to get it there. That night after the game, Buddy Downs, who was the traveling secretary for the Indianapolis Clowns...He talked to me after the game and told me how well I had performed. He started askin' me to come back to the league with the Indianapolis Clowns. After I told him that I was finished as a ballplayer, he said, "Aw no! Give us a chance first." So in '55, I decided to go to spring training with the Indianapolis Clowns. By that time the Clowns had gotten out of the Negro League and started traveling independently, like the Indianapolis Clowns, the New York Black Yankees, just like the Harlem Globetrotters did...Like I said, with the abilities that I had left, I could partly play the game as a modified ballplayer and put on a show! I just started originating all kinds of gimmicks and everything. I had the top hat and tails. Well, Ed Hamman, with some publicity that I didn't know about...It was in the papers, "Prince" Joe Henry.
GRB: So Ed Hamman gave you the name?
Joe Henry: Right! So I'm wonderin', "Where in the hell did this come from?" And Ed said that I felt like baseball was a gentleman's game and I strolled to the plate with the top hat and tails on. That's the way it started! I started playin' in the pants with the coat on, and they began to get worn down and raggedy. That's how I got that name, "Prince" Joe Henry.
GRB: What were some of your antics?
Joe Henry: I originated antics that "Goose" Tatum called when I was with him in 1958 on the Detroit Clowns; he called the things that I was doing "gems". I've got a great big write-up around here somewhere. The ideas and all that he came up with, like the tuxedo, top hat on, and strollin' away from first base once on base. The pitcher would try to turn to pick me off, but I would have a distance that was safe enough to know I could get back. Rather than try to slide back, I would just take a pratfall directly on my back towards the bag. I would kickoff with my spikes in the ground just like I was tryin to propel myself back to the bag with the top hat on touching the bag.
GRB: So the top hat was what would touch the bag?
Joe Henry: That's right! I did a lot of things. I had already started wearin’ my pants down to my ankles. That came about because the softball uniforms were different from the baseball uniforms. They would be hangin’ to your ankles. So I started wearin’ my pants real low down to my ankles. I’d turn my back to the pitcher, and by timing his delivery when he turned the ball loose, I would swing around at the plate and take a cut at the ball. And there have been several times that I hit homeruns, and I didn’t know the ball was going out! Then I would slap the catcher’s hands, slap the umpire’s hands, and go over to the stands and start a conversation with one of the fans and then jog around the bases. So I started that kinda’ stuff before Reggie Jackson even came into the picture. There were several things that I did, ya know. That’s a hard job! There were newspaper clippings and things across the countries that were rating me, “Next to the fabulous Reese “Goose” Tatum!” When I was with Goose, I’d pull all kinds of things. And I would always go right back to Goose, because Goose had taught me all those things. Then Goose would get in on the act with me. Like, he’d put a little nail into the top of a bat, and he would have a baseball fixed in some sort of way that it had a hole in it. He and I would get on the field, and try the balancing act by putting the ball on top of the bat so it would stay there. And the people would get tied up in that. Every time it would seem that we were takin’ that ball all the way up, they’d start clappin’ and hollerin’ but it would roll off. About that time, you could hear the crowd sayin, “Ohhhhhh”!
GRB: So they didn’t know there was a nail in there?
Joe Henry: No. Then, after you’d do that several times, you’d try the same way, but you’d put the ball over the nail. And when you’d start goin’ up, and the ball remained there, people would start clappin’ and hollerin’, and carryin’ on! When you succeeded in keeping that ball on the knob of that bat, you’d just lean the bat across your shoulder with the ball still on it and start walkin’ away!
GRB: Showin'em the trick!
Joe Henry: That's right! I had a lot of fun doin' those things. It was just really, really, really nice. I got all kinds of publicity from the things I was doing, and people wanted to know where I'd come up with those things. I did many, many, many things, ya know.
GRB: Oh, yeah?
Joe Henry: Yeah! At that time, you weren't permitted to wear a mustache. So at 20 years old...Hell, I didn't have a mustache and my sister told me how to make a mustache. You'd take one of those wooden matches, burn it, then go get some water, and put the match down in the water. Then, from that burnt part, I'd just make me a mustache! I did everything that an ordinary ballplayer couldn't do. Those ideas that I thought up and put into motion, like hidin' my glove up under the inside of the coat. I might take a heck of a cut at the ball, and after takin that heck of a cut at a ball...I would do that purposely. And then, on the next pitch, I would slide my hand into the glove up under the coat so nobody in the stands could see it. So then, when the pitcher would turn the ball loose, I would snatch my arm out with the glove on my hand and catch the ball! And then, I'd throw it up into the air and fungo it!
GRB: (Laughing) Okay! As if you were hitting outfield practice. I know what you're talking about.
Joe Henry: Heh, there were so many things, ya know! I'd get a big ole' pair of women's drawers four sizes too big for the lady, and I'd get in argument with the umpire. Then, the umpire would take off after me, and he's right behind me while I'm headin' for the stands runnin'. And by the time I'd get over to the stands, I'd jump into the stands where a lady was seated. Then, when I'd come back up, I'd have them big drawers in my hand holdin'em up! And people just cried. They just cried.
GRB: Were the umpires in on the stunt?
Joe Henry: Well, he would only run me in the direction I was headin' to jump over into the stands. Ya see, when I'd jump over, I would go down to the floor out of sight of most of the fans. Then, when I'd come back up off the floor, I would have those big drawers spread out, showin'em around to the people! Sometimes, I got a pretty big kick out of that myself!
GRB: I bet!
Joe Henry: I pulled that on one lady, and she reached up under her dress to see that she still had her drawers on! (Laughs) When I stood up and started spreadin them drawers around, she looked at me and she said, "You'd better get away from me before I knock you out!" You would be surprised at some of those ladies. They wanted pictures and everything. It's a wonderful thing when a person has the ability to make people laugh.
GRB: Do you have any humorous stories from your playing days that you'd like to share?
Joe Henry: Uh, quite a few. Upon undertaking the showmanship with the Indianapolis Clowns, I happened to not be the only showman to keep people laughin'. You see, the Indianapolis Clowns had sideline entertainers. They had a pair of guys at that time. One was named Richard "King Tut" King and the other was Spec Bebop. He and Tut, a former baseball player, put on the show years before I arrived with the Indianapolis Clowns. My thing came after the injury, and after the fact that I'd acknowledged that I could not play 100% as a baseball player. That's where I came in. I decided that I would do certain things, and the top hat and tails were synonymous with the Indianapolis Clowns.
GRB: So you weren't the only one who wore those?
Joe Henry: Heh, no, I'd have to clear that up. Nobody ever did what I did in puttin' on a show with the top hat and tails, Bermuda shorts, the fisherman's cap.....Nobody ever did anything like that with the Indianapolis Clowns. For instance, whenever Goose Tatum, the former Harlem Globetrotters original showman, performed with the Indianapolis Clowns, at times he might put on the coat and tails, ya know. He might run out on the field, but after a play or two he would pull it off. That was it. The type of showmanship that King Tut and Spec Bebop did...You had two side performers like that. One was named "Hot Dog" Bobo Nickerson. Then there was Ed Hamman, part owner of the Indianapolis Clowns. Anyway, these were sideline showmen. At on time, and this was long before I came to be an Indianapolis Clowns player; they had a one man band sideline performer. I used to get a big kick out of some of the things that I was told by older guys, when playing with the Clowns. The one man band would holler out at the audience and ask, "Hey, have you ever heard of Paul Whiteman?" And when people hollered back, "Yeah.", he would answer, "Well, I'm Paul Blackman!" (Both laugh) It was all of these types of thing that pre-dated sideline entertainers like Fredbird and all of these different types that you hear of today. There was just so much entertainment along with Negro League baseball games that the people really had many things to enjoy themselves with.
GRB: What was the crowd like? What was the demographic makeup of the crowd? Was it mostly white people, mostly black people?
Joe Henry: No, no. It was mostly black people at all times. And it's a shame to say this, in a supposedly civilized society, but whites in the ballpark were cordoned off! So where blacks were in the majority, there were whites, but they were in a little section as when blacks would attend something that would be viewed by predominantly white people.
GRB: Almost a role reversal in a way?
Joe Henry: That's right! There was no mixin' up with blacks and whites together. It was like they said, colored section. And when it was predominantly black, white section. Yeah, that's typical.
GRB: Were there any good clubhouse pranks that you witnessed?
Joe Henry: No. I mean, guys were always pullin' little stunts and things that really went unnoticed. It was just to get a laugh right then and there, ya know.
GRB: That was it?
Joe Henry: (Laughs) I'll tell ya about a bus stunt from when I was with the Memphis Red Sox! My buddy, who joined the Memphis Red Sox the same time that I did in 1950...His name was Ollie Brantley; He and I were the only two kids to make the team, and we didn't start traveling with the team at that point. It was in Birmingham, Alabama, where Memphis was playing, that the manager called back for Ollie and I to board a bus and meet the team in Memphis. Being kinda' young, at one time we were walkin' around a town where we were to play, and we happened to walk upon a novelty store. In this novelty store, as we checked things out, we found a small bottle of stink perfume. So we decided while traveling that night, to open that stink perfume and just wave it around in the bus. Because that's about all you had to do and then put the cap back on it! (Laughs) This was when there were different nationalities on the bus like Panamanians, Cubans, Puerto Ricans, and black Americans. And one night, as we were ridin' along, the whole crew on the bus was asleep. It had kinda' cooled off just a little bit while we traveled. So we took that stink perfume out, took the top cap off, and sprayed it around, just kinda' shook it around a little bit. Then we put the cap back on right quick and acted as if we were asleep. That stuff started moving all over the bus and you heard a mixture of languages! They thought that somebody was just lettin' go! And Ollie and I would act as if we were sleepin' while we were doing everything to hold our laughing back! All of these people started complaining like, "Who's that nasty sap sucker that's sittin' back there and openly, without any kinda' morals, lettin' go things like that?!?" (Laughing) And what was comical to us was that you could hear those side windows on the bus goin', "Plam, Plam, Plam", as they were opening'em' up, so that air could come through! (Laughs) After we finished the first time, and things cleared out, and the windows went back closed, we waited awhile until everything got settled down. And then we did the same thing! I mean, there was some cursing, and our "chauff" stopped the bus. Then he said, "Look, wait a minute! Whoever is doing this, if you've got to go to a restroom, I'll stop at a service station and get the bus filled up!" That's through the south, and whenever the bus was gassed up, we couldn't go into the restrooms. So that's the way we could get some patronage by the bus being gassed. And so, one guy on the bus said, "Ya know, I hate to feel like this, but whoever is doing this, point him out to me and I'll bust his ass wide open!" (Both laugh) I mean, Ollie and I just cramped from laughing so hard to ourselves and tryin' to keep it from everybody else!
GRB: And did they ever catch you?
Joe Henry: Noooooo! The next day, we'd be walkin' around in the town we were playin' in, and we would be leaning on each other laughin', ya know! We were just about afraid to tell anybody about it, because we had just joined the team. And heck, we didn't know what would happen if they found out. It was little acts like that which were very, very, comical.
GRB: Some inside jokes there.
Joe Henry: Right! There was one thing that happened to me in Columbus, Mississippi. There was an umpire that didn't want to be bothered with that showmanship of mine, no matter how the crowds in the stands rolled over, howling', and laughin', and everything. So this particular night, I decided to get some laughs off this umpire, and he let me know right off the jump, "Don't play that stuff with me!" That didn't mean anything to me! I would try to ease around up on him and every time he would put his hands on his hips. So he would stare, just stop and stare at me. So I would head in another direction, ya know, just entertaining the crowd. Later on I came back while he was tryin' to concentrate on umpiring, and messed with him again. And after I bothered him, he broke at me and I started runnin'! I ran from home plate, and started slowin' down as I neared first base. Then, I heard the guys on the bench hollerin', "Run! Run!" (Laughs) Well, I happened to look around, and this umpire was right behind me! I carried him to that right field wall runnin'! And the guys were talkin' about how that tail of the tuxedo coat was standin' straight out as I was runnin'! (Both laugh) When I got back to the bench, even some of the guys on the other team were on the ground!
GRB: So he chased you all the way out to right field?
Joe Henry: Yes, he did! When he went beyond first base, he was serious, ya know! Had he caught me, the fans might've really had some entertainment! This guy had muscles. (Laughs) I'm tellin' ya, he was a big dude! And after he couldn't catch me beyond first base, he just stood with his hands on his hips watchin' me run! The people in the stands, I mean, they were crying! When I got to the bench, the fellas' on the team were crying on the ground from laughing so hard! I'm tellin' ya, we talked about that on the bus that night!
GRB: So when something like that happened, were you basically ejected from the game from then on?
Joe Henry: Who me?
GRB: Yeah!
Joe Henry: No! I was puttin' on the show, and that's what the people wanted to see! Ya see, I would do the showin', but the Clowns had a monster of a team. They had a powerful team. The Clowns, at one time, had won championships and everything. The Clowns had some dynamite teams. Let me say this; when I went to Memphis, there were 10 teams still in the league. Do you know that I saw, right there, the power of the Negro League? And for every one of those teams that were leftover, eight of those guys could've gone to those Major League teams. The Kansas City Monarchs; the Memphis Red Sox; the Birmingham Black Barons; the Baltimore Elite Giants......Junior Gilliam and Joe Black were with the Elite Giants at that time. Any eight guys, from any of those teams, could've gone straight to the Major League locker rooms and put on a uniform, like Ernie Banks did with Chicago.
GRB: Do you sense that the history of the Negro Leagues has been underappreciated? If so, what do you think can be done to preserve that history so that younger generations can learn it as well?
Joe Henry: Well, I think that the
Negro League Baseball Museum has done one tremendous job. That is one history, preserved up to this point that will never die. I mean, it is something else. Ya know when they had their last voting about blacks entering the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame, I wrote in one of my articles that I wouldn't vote for any single guy. For instance, Buck O'Neil or one of the other players...I cast my vote for the Negro League Baseball Museum to be placed in the Hall of Fame. And by placing the Negro League Baseball Museum in the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame, any Negro League baseball player could be acknowledged. Everybody would have been mentioned, in some kinda' way, as a part of the Hall of Fame.
GRB: I understand you've attended some reunions at the Negro League Baseball Museum. How have those been for you?
Joe Henry: Oh, you mean in Kansas City?
GRB: Yes, sir.
Joe Henry: I'll tell ya what; I haven't gotten over attending those Negro League reunions.
GRB: Great memories?
Joe Henry: Oh, I mean, the time that was had.....I met some of the older guys that I'd never met before. It was an experience that made chills come all over me. The last one in 2000 was very good. Charley Pride attended both. He's a former Negro Leaguer.
GRB: And a country musician.
Joe Henry: Right. Tommy Lasorda was master of ceremonies. I just can't name the different people. Hank Aaron was there, and Hank Aaron is an alumnus of the Indianapolis Clowns. There is so much history associated with the Negro League. I happened to be flippin' the television channels last night, and the Pirates and Cardinals were playin' in Pittsburgh. The Pirates wore the uniforms of the Homestead Grays, and the Cardinals wore the uniforms of the St. Louis Stars.
GRB: Do you like when Major League Baseball does acknowledgments like that?
Joe Henry: Well, it's a good advertisement for the Negro League.
GRB: In February of '2005, Mike Seely, who is currently a writer for the Seattle Weekly, did a profile piece on you and your struggles with the
Major League Baseball Assistance Team (B.A.T.). Could you walk us through that process?
Joe Henry: Well, I had no knowledge of the latter pensions being given to the former Negro Leaguers. I happened to be reading the Belleville News-Democrat, and saw where they had a million dollars that they were going to give to former Negro Leaguer's in need. It was specifically stated, by Bud Selig, that this money was going to be given to guys who played at least parts of four seasons. That means, if you played one season, two seasons, three seasons, or the whole four seasons. And Major League Baseball began tying that up, in some kinda' way, with four consecutive seasons. I still have that paper. After reading that, I contacted Bud Selig's office, which was being run by some organization called B.A.T., and inquired about what was in the newspaper. And I was told that it was true. So Jim Martin sent me an application, and nobody could've been as honest as I was, and I sent it back. After I received his answer, I didn't qualify. Here I am, a player in1950, two years after Robinson went to the Dodgers, who knew of guys who played before and after Robinson. The league continued in '1948, '49, '50, and '51. That burned me! That's when I got a hold of Mike Seely at the Riverfront Times, and he did that story on me. And it took off. Jim Martin learned that I was ready to expose that whole sham, and it was a couple of St. Louis Post-Dispatch writers that let him know. Jim Martin contacted these Post-Dispatch writers, and this was before I knew Mike Seely at the Riverfront Times. He told them that he was sending me another application to have me fill out, and then he would give me the pension. And I told him, "No, I've got a letter that I'm going to give to you." So he told me that he wasn't in the business of correspondence, and that he was trying to give money to people who needed it. That application that I submitted let's you know about my financial background and everything. So he said to me, "You know, you're being belligerent." I said, "Call it what you may, but you will receive the letter." After I said that, he wanted me to fill the application out. I told him, "I feel worn out. You gave me your answer." So he was ready to give me the money for four years. I just told him, "Hey, just like Johnny Paycheck, when he sang
Take this Job and Shove It; If you can't give a pension to all of these guys that played in the Negro League, and can prove that they played, take that pension and shove it!" That's when the battle started between Major League Baseball's Jim Martin and me.
GRB: Well, the funny thing about it is that if you hadn't left the Negro League to enter the minor leagues, you would've had the pension, wouldn't you?
Joe Henry: No. If there had been anybody more qualified than me, I couldn't find them. Ya know, after '1954, there were only four teams in the Negro League. They were the Birmingham Black Barons, the Memphis Red Sox, the Kansas City Monarchs, and the Indianapolis Clowns. And then the Clowns got out of the league after '1954. These guys that got the pension from Bud Selig and Jim Martin...They dealt with Bob Mitchell, a guy that supposedly played with the Kansas City Monarchs starting in '1954. After '1954, Ted Raspberry purchased the Kansas City Monarchs, and the guy [Mitchell] was playing with the team then. Hell, they tell me that when Ted Raspberry purchased the team, he sold every other ballplayer and even the bus. And nobody wanted this guy! Really, he didn't have any four years in. That's when Selig and them came up with the idea that '1957 was the end of the Negro League. That's how he got in there because he was still playing with the Kansas City Monarchs up until '1957. He played in '54, '55, '56,'57, and he wasn't due that money. If anything, he would've had one year in '1954, and he would have been excluded from the pension. They didn't follow suit. They didn't set parts of at least four years. At least he would've had one year, and then he would've been eligible for the pension. If the other years hadn't been added, he would've been out of there. Bud Selig didn't have any business telling anybody about when the Negro League ended because Selig didn't have any concern for the Negro League or its history.
GRB: Are there any other players that are in the same situation as you, who didn't get the pension due to the circumstances?
Joe Henry: Yes, and I was there playin' before any of these guys. Charley Pride made it very, very clear! He said, "I didn't want the money. I didn't need the money. But this one guy insisted that I take it. So I did and gave it to my brother." I'm just waiting for some good lawyer who wants to get his name out there across the nation. If a good lawyer were to take up the case, Major League Baseball would be too glad to pull pension money out of their back pockets and pay all these other guys. These men have played in the Negro League, and have been cut short because of Bud Selig cutting off the Negro League at a certain year.
Thanks to everyone who took the time to read this interview! Contact information for B.A.T. can be found
here.
