Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

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EastonBlues22
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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by EastonBlues22 »

Wow, it seems like I missed a lot today while I was at work.

My initial impressions have probably already been stated by others:

--I can't believe he was fired...it's a bit of a black eye for both Jocketty and the organization, and I wish they could have found another way.

--I like that the organization seems to have a clear plan (finally) for moving forward, and that it is determined to do so with solidarity.

--Honestly, I can't think of a better time for this change (especially if the coaching staff is going to turn over as well) than right now. There are good candidates available, and the organization is at something of a crossroads right now. This is the perfect offseason for a move like this...as long as the subsequent hire(s) are intelligent and appropriate. I'm incredibly excited to see how the owners follow up on this, as there is an excellent opportunity here...but it's still going to hurt watching Jocketty (who was a class act in his time here) representing another team.

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Richie Allen
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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by Richie Allen »

Safe in assuming Walt will hook up with another club almost immediately. I'm really a little embarrassed to be a Cardinal fan today. Walt's the best GM I've ever known. Does this mean the Mulder trade debate can finally be put to rest?

Getting the parts in place for another post-season-free odd numbered decade. With the exception of the '96 playoff appearance, we haven't seen the post season in a odd numbered decade since 1934.

Thanks Walt.
Goodbye Tony.

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Richie Allen
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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by Richie Allen »

Socnorb11 wrote:Do you think that Jocketty's way of "calling shots" would work in today's market? He hasn't "outsmarted" the other GM's for a few years now. The days of being able to con another team into giving up McGwire and Edmonds for chump change seem to be gone.
I think Walt's ability to judge talent, as well as personality type (to fit in with this team) was more valuable than his ability to outsmart other GMs. Many of his success stories were guys that, at the time, no one was that interested in. To me that's going to be harder to replace than finding a GM that's slick or a fast talker.

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dangerous
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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by dangerous »

Richie Allen wrote:Getting the parts in place for another post-season-free odd numbered decade. With the exception of the '96 playoff appearance, we haven't seen the post season in a odd numbered decade since 1934.
But we average three World Series appearances per even # decade- so we should go in '08 or '09, before the drought.

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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by fulldeck »

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/vi ... p?t=285393
A few weeks before the season ended, I was talking to Albert Pujols about a home -- palace might be a better description -- he was having built in the St. Louis area. He said he'd put a hold on the plans, partly because there was a lot more work involved than he and his wife have time for -- but also because he wants to see what direction the team takes in the next couple years.

After the firing of Jocketty and the possible departure of La Russa, Pujols isn't likely to be pleased with what he's going to see.

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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by Socnorb11 »

Richie Allen wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:Do you think that Jocketty's way of "calling shots" would work in today's market? He hasn't "outsmarted" the other GM's for a few years now. The days of being able to con another team into giving up McGwire and Edmonds for chump change seem to be gone.
I think Walt's ability to judge talent, as well as personality type (to fit in with this team) was more valuable than his ability to outsmart other GMs. Many of his success stories were guys that, at the time, no one was that interested in. To me that's going to be harder to replace than finding a GM that's slick or a fast talker.
When was the last time he pulled off a deal like that,though? Larry Walker in 2004? How many years do you let him "coast" before you make a change?

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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by jagtrader »

Even Jocketty's best moves were flukey. Rolen was in his walk year, turned down a huge extension from the Phillies and the Cardinals were his favorite team. Walker was traded to the Rangers, turned it down and would only accept a deal to St. Louis. You can't live on moves like that forever. The price for acquiring big-name players is high and the Cards don't have enough prospects to pull it off. They also don't have enough prospects to keep scrubs like Miles from eating up 400 at-bats.
Last edited by jagtrader on October 4 07, 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by ghostrunner »

fulldeck wrote:http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/vi ... p?t=285393
A few weeks before the season ended, I was talking to Albert Pujols about a home -- palace might be a better description -- he was having built in the St. Louis area. He said he'd put a hold on the plans, partly because there was a lot more work involved than he and his wife have time for -- but also because he wants to see what direction the team takes in the next couple years.

After the firing of Jocketty and the possible departure of La Russa, Pujols isn't likely to be pleased with what he's going to see.
But then again, he may. Perhaps he's not fond of the recent moves that have been made.

I'm not going to hold anything against whoever the new guy is. Whoever they are deserves a chance. I'd be okay with Mozeliak, I think. Some of the other names mentioned sound good. The more I think about it, perhaps it's right that the current market doesn't work for Jocketty at our payroll. And if he has indeed caused division, or even if the owners caused it and he's not on board, then he has to go.

Unfortunately that leaves him only about 5 or 6 teams he can go to and spend money more freely and acquire those big names he's famous for. My concern in firing him is that the market may well change again in a year or two into one he's more comfortable with.

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BW23
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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by BW23 »

EastonBlues22 wrote:Wow, it seems like I missed a lot today while I was at work.

My initial impressions have probably already been stated by others:

--I can't believe he was fired...it's a bit of a black eye for both Jocketty and the organization, and I wish they could have found another way.

--I like that the organization seems to have a clear plan (finally) for moving forward, and that it is determined to do so with solidarity.

--Honestly, I can't think of a better time for this change (especially if the coaching staff is going to turn over as well) than right now. There are good candidates available, and the organization is at something of a crossroads right now. This is the perfect offseason for a move like this...as long as the subsequent hire(s) are intelligent and appropriate. I'm incredibly excited to see how the owners follow up on this, as there is an excellent opportunity here...but it's still going to hurt watching Jocketty (who was a class act in his time here) representing another team.
Easton...I completely agree about the black eye part. I actually think it will be somewhat difficult to find a good GM. I've suggested Logan White as a strong candidate, but there's no way he'd take this job unless he's just completely ready to be a GM no matter what. Guys like him that are extraordinary at player development through, mostly, traditional scouting won't even bother with this job considering the pull that Luhnow apparently has for some reason. I don't see guys with experience as a GM that would be a good fit. I'm sure there's a lot of candidates most of us have never heard of, but I'm not sure the job will be as attractive as some think.

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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by TimeForGuinness »

Radbird wrote:
Socnorb11 wrote:It would be unrealistic for Pujols to think that the Cardinals should be an elite team every single year of his career.
I know it was a different world back then, but this is one area where I hope Pujols career doesn't parallel Musial's.

Musial
1941-46: 4 pennants, 3 world championships
1947-63: 0 pennants, 0 world championships

Pujols
2001-06: 5 postseasons, 2 pennants, 1 world championship
2007-??: TBD
That is frightening...

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