Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

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EastonBlues22
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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by EastonBlues22 »

BW23 wrote: Easton...I completely agree about the black eye part. I actually think it will be somewhat difficult to find a good GM. I've suggested Logan White as a strong candidate, but there's no way he'd take this job unless he's just completely ready to be a GM no matter what. Guys like him that are extraordinary at player development through, mostly, traditional scouting won't even bother with this job considering the pull that Luhnow apparently has for some reason. I don't see guys with experience as a GM that would be a good fit. I'm sure there's a lot of candidates most of us have never heard of, but I'm not sure the job will be as attractive as some think.
I like the idea of White, also...he would almost have to be a name on any short list. It's too bad Ryan is staying on with the Twins as an advisor, he might have been a excellent fit with Moz taking on some of the administrative duties. You're right that there aren't a lot of guys with experience out there who fit our needs...but I'm not sure a traditional scouting guy is really the type of guy they're looking for at this point anyway.

For a young guy, it's hard to imagine a more attractive starting job. There's going to be an above average payroll to work with, a relatively forgiving atmosphere and media, a relatively weak division, time to produce results (especially if their specialty is player development), and at least one cornerstone player to build around. The team itself isn't in the best shape, but it's not like the team needs a complete blowup to turn it around. There are downsides to the job too, but overall, it's a lot better situation than others that are out there.

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ghostrunner
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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by ghostrunner »

Has anyone with Insider access read the Keith Law article about Jocketty? Sounds like he's defending Walt, but I can't read past the first paragraph?

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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by Fat Strat »

A few weeks before the season ended, I was talking to Albert Pujols about a home -- palace might be a better description -- he was having built in the St. Louis area. He said he'd put a hold on the plans, partly because there was a lot more work involved than he and his wife have time for -- but also because he wants to see what direction the team takes in the next couple years.

After the firing of Jocketty and the possible departure of La Russa, Pujols isn't likely to be pleased with what he's going to see.
This is such bunk. Pujols is signed for 4 more years. I hate speculative crap like this from the media. You think Pujols will be pissed if we hire Oquendo, Larry Walker, and Mozeliak? Hardly. Let's wait until we see who the club brings in before we start declaring that Albert's not going to like it.

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thrill
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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by thrill »

Albert is a young guy who has only had one manager/gm/pitching coach combo. It's natural that he is upset about this. I don't think it will take anything more than putting together a competitive team to keep him happy going forward.

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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by Magneto2.0 »

We'll see if it's good or bad, but I will say, I haven't had much faith in Walt recently, and his obsession with getting retreads has worn thin with me.

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BW23
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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by BW23 »

Magneto2.0 wrote:We'll see if it's good or bad, but I will say, I haven't had much faith in Walt recently, and his obsession with getting retreads has worn thin with me.
Why has he gotten retreads?

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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by Socnorb11 »

thrill wrote:Albert is a young guy who has only had one manager/gm/pitching coach combo. It's natural that he is upset about this. I don't think it will take anything more than putting together a competitive team to keep him happy going forward.

We don't know that he's upset. Speculation seems to be spreading on the message boards, but for all we know, Pujols might be thrilled.

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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by Magneto2.0 »

BW23 wrote:
Magneto2.0 wrote:We'll see if it's good or bad, but I will say, I haven't had much faith in Walt recently, and his obsession with getting retreads has worn thin with me.
Why has he gotten retreads?
Because we have made bad choices in some trades and also because we haven't drafted well.

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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by BenNX74205 »

ghostrunner wrote:Has anyone with Insider access read the Keith Law article about Jocketty? Sounds like he's defending Walt, but I can't read past the first paragraph?
To summarize:
*Jocketty has had a great run in StL: in 13 years, 7 playoff appearances, 3 NL pennants (I thought we only had 2...), and 1 World Series ("an unlikely one, but still, the flag looks the same") (I guess he couldn't resist taking one more shot...)
*J let go due to non-baseball reasons, but the baseball reasons sometimes should win out over those concerns (implication is that they should so in J's case)
*Recap of J's greatest moves (Rolen trade, Edmonds trade, Carp original signing, Drew trade)
*J's major failing (if there is one) is the weak farm system, but control of that has been taken away in the last few years and the drafts during that time hasn't been very good anyways
*Luhnow's position and power gains was a detriment to several of J's long-time lieutenants
*Situation where GM does not have full power over scouting and personnel is unique, and even more unusual considering J's track record
*If L is untouchable, many GM candidates with strengths in scouting or player development will balk at the lack of control over that area due to L's presence and power.
*May be forced to fill position from within (Mozeliak would be a solid internal choice), or pick someone who cares more about "being GM" than they care about the lack of control
*J should have his pick of positions, given his reputation and track record
*One of J's first questions of a prospective employer will be "Can I pick my own scouting director?"

Sounds like a pretty good summary of J's tenure, and the odd situation the Cards have put themselves in.

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BW23
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Re: Per Bernie : Jocketty is OUT!!!

Post by BW23 »

Magneto2.0 wrote:
BW23 wrote:
Magneto2.0 wrote:We'll see if it's good or bad, but I will say, I haven't had much faith in Walt recently, and his obsession with getting retreads has worn thin with me.
Why has he gotten retreads?
Because we have made bad choices in some trades and also because we haven't drafted well.
Yep. That's the only reason. Right?

And you mention bad trades. There's Mulder and.....

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