Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

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Richie Allen
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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by Richie Allen »

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote: I bet the Texeira deal will look about 60 million dollars worse than the HOlliday deal in 7 years. What a bunch of twits.
Exactly. Both are the exact same age and are projected at nearly identical value and yet one is paid around $17 million while the other is being paid around $22.5 over a longer period of time.

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Eephus Speed
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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

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TimeForGuinness wrote:
withAloe wrote:I really doubt Boston was going to jump back in after taking what they offered Holliday (5/82.5) and giving it to Lackey. Not to mention the signings of Cameron and Beltre. I suppose the Yankees might have jumped in. The Angels probably weren't going to become interested after signing Matsui and Abreu. Baltimore has no hope of contending, but I guess they may have been interested in offering $100+M for some screwy reason.
I never rule out the Yankees, Halos, and Red Sox if a steal is on the table...they have all paid luxury tax before, and getting Holliday at 5/80 would have been an easy stretch for any of them.
Unless the Angels were going to turn around and find a taker for Abreu or Matsui, or trade Rivera and put Holliday in RF, Holliday simply wasn't an option for them. Boston is already set to have their highest payroll ever.

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Eephus Speed
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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by Eephus Speed »

Richie Allen wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote: I bet the Texeira deal will look about 60 million dollars worse than the HOlliday deal in 7 years. What a bunch of twits.
Exactly. Both are the exact same age and are projected at nearly identical value and yet one is paid around $17 million while the other is being paid around $22.5 over a longer period of time.
The counterargument would be that Holliday takes up a much larger percentage of his team's payroll and the market wasn't as suppressed a year ago.

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Richie Allen
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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by Richie Allen »

Baltimore is apparently not afraid to spend some money either. They, at one time, had an offer of 8/130 on the table before denying it but there was thought that they were lurking in the bushes and keeping an eye on our negotiations. They had also bid 7/150 on Teixeira in 08.

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Eephus Speed
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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by Eephus Speed »

Rumors of outlandish offers from a crappy team (or Boras's mystery team), rumors that the team denied making, don't really provide evidence that we *had* to go as high as we did. I don't have evidence that we didn't, which is why I'm not claiming that I know for a fact that we didn't need to offer as much as we did. I do know that a lot of folks with MLB ties seem to think we went a good deal higher than necessary. Maybe they're wrong.

Regardless, I'm fine with the contract. Nobody has an issue with the AAV, and the length doesn't really worry me.

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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by TheoSqua »

Also, this isn't exactly a new philosophy for the Cardinals.

In 2004 36% of the payroll went to Morris/Edmonds/Rolen.
In 2005 36% went to Pujols/Edmonds/Rolen
In 2006 44% went to Pujols/Edmonds/Rolen
In 2007 38% went to Pujols/Edmonds/Rolen
In 2008 37% went to Pujols/Glaus/Carpenter
In 2009 44% went to Pujols/Glaus/Carpenter
In 2010 47% goes to Pujols/Holliday/Carpenter

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Richie Allen
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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by Richie Allen »

withAloe wrote:
Richie Allen wrote:
AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote: I bet the Texeira deal will look about 60 million dollars worse than the HOlliday deal in 7 years. What a bunch of twits.
Exactly. Both are the exact same age and are projected at nearly identical value and yet one is paid around $17 million while the other is being paid around $22.5 over a longer period of time.
The counterargument would be that Holliday takes up a much larger percentage of his team's payroll and the market wasn't as suppressed a year ago.
I suppose you could also counter that counterargument with the notion that the Cardinals not signing Holliday would have been far more detrimental to their playoff hopes than the Yankees not signing Teixiera. As an organization that has obviously favored the stars/scrubs makeup, to quite good success, the opportunities to actually sign a "star" are much further and fewer between (and more important) than to a team like the Yankees who subscribe to stars/stars.

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Eephus Speed
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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by Eephus Speed »

Yes. Let me be clear, I'm thrilled that we signed Holliday. And I think it's laughable that people are being more critical of the Holliday contract than the Bay contract.

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Richie Allen
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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by Richie Allen »

withAloe wrote:Rumors of outlandish offers from a crappy team (or Boras's mystery team), rumors that the team denied making, don't really provide evidence that we *had* to go as high as we did. I don't have evidence that we didn't, which is why I'm not claiming that I know for a fact that we didn't need to offer as much as we did. I do know that a lot of folks with MLB ties seem to think we went a good deal higher than necessary. Maybe they're wrong.

Regardless, I'm fine with the contract. Nobody has an issue with the AAV, and the length doesn't really worry me.
The highest offer Teixiera had before the Yankees swoped in was $168 million from Boston. Why did they offer $180? They left $12 million on the table. That's $1.5 million a year. That's far more than the difference between 7/120 ($17 million and some change) and the 5/85 ($17 million) hardball offer that writer proposed. They did it because that's the way it works if you want to stop dicking around and sign the player. We're arguing over nothing here. Nickel and dime crap. Unless you're arguing that we shouldn't have signed him, which is another conversation.

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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

I would like a logical explanation as to why someone would suggest this is one of the worst signings in baseball.

Was there another bidder? Probably not. Does that mean Holliday was overpaid? Absolutely not. As long as he performs up to expectations, well, then this was a great signing.

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