Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

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Eephus Speed
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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by Eephus Speed »

Again, it's not the annual salary that is being questioned. It's the length, the age 35 and 36 seasons. But, as I said, those same people should be even more shocked by the Bay contract and the Lackey contract.

Again, I'm fine with the contract. I just think questioning the 7th year or even the 6th year is reasonable. At least as reasonable as thinking the Red Sox and Angels were going to offer $100M. Logistically, the Angels weren't a good fit. Even the Red Sox (and Yankees?) have a limit, and they had already given out an $80+M contract this offseason.

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Richie Allen
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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by Richie Allen »

I think we can all agree that Boris was meeting with other teams throughout the off season concerning Holliday. Probably had a pretty good idea of who was serious and what they might be willing to offer. Wouldn't it be idiotic of him, if the Cardinals and Mets were the only two teams that could swing it, to wait until after the Bay signing...leaving the Cardinals as the only team left with the money to pay him?

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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by phins »

Boras is good at that chicken game Richie, I'll give him that.

For me, it was what another poster called a win, win, win. The player got the length he was hoping for, the agent got the total dollars he was looking for, and the Cards got the player at a deal they were willing to make.

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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by Richie Allen »

phinstd wrote:Boras is good at that chicken game Richie, I'll give him that.

For me, it was what another poster called a win, win, win. The player got the length he was hoping for, the agent got the total dollars he was looking for, and the Cards got the player at a deal they were willing to make.
I feel like I'm senselessly prolonging this but I'm not sure the second win is true. Boris originally was hoping for 8/160, from what I understand.

I've said it a couple times, or at least thought it, I'm sure Mo had an idea as far back as July of what we'd be able to offer Holliday this off season. I have the feeling 7/120 was not out of the realm of possibility. As long as we got him for a number we're comfortable with, why torture ourselves with speculation and what-ifs?

I've also said this before too. Our strategy of (supposedly) bidding against ourselves says to me how much we wanted this guy.
Last edited by Richie Allen on January 8 10, 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by Radbird »

phinstd wrote:Boras is good at that chicken game Richie, I'll give him that.

For me, it was what another poster called a win, win, win. The player got the length he was hoping for, the agent got the total dollars he was looking for, and the Cards got the player at a deal they were willing to make.
You missed a win, phin - from page 193.
Radbird wrote:
TimeForGuinness wrote:Isn't it possible that everyone wins?

Hollliday wins: Gets fair value, years, and NTC
Mo wins: Cards get Holliday (and by default...possibly Pujols)
Boras wins: He gets nice paycheck and reputation isn't tarnished.
Card's fans wins: Holliday + Pujols + Carp + Waino together for 3 years.
Yea! A new corporate-speak term. Who needs a win-win when you can have a win-win-win-win??

I expect to see this in a presentation sometime this year.
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Eephus Speed
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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by Eephus Speed »

Boras can't control the market. He can't force the Red Sox to not sign Lackey or the Mets to not sign Bay or the overall market to not be suppressed. Believe it or not, there are times when things don't go Boras's way (it could be factors outside of his control, it could be a misreading of the market). And a lot of his BS is transparent. Yeah, yeah, a "mystery" team lurks...Scooby-Doo and the gang are on the case.

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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by lukethedrifter »

Richie Allen wrote:
phinstd wrote:Boras is good at that chicken game Richie, I'll give him that.

For me, it was what another poster called a win, win, win. The player got the length he was hoping for, the agent got the total dollars he was looking for, and the Cards got the player at a deal they were willing to make.
I feel like I'm senselessly prolonging this but I'm not sure the second win is true. Boris originally was hoping for 8/160, from what I understand.

I've said it a couple times, or at least thought it, I'm sure Mo had an idea as far back as July of what we'd be able to offer Holliday this off season. I have the feeling 7/120 was not out of the realm of possibility. As long as we got him for a number we're comfortable with, why torture ourselves with speculation and what-ifs?
I don't believe that Boras ever thought he was gonna get Tex money for Holliday.

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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by GodWeenSanto »

Playing hardball to get the best posible deal could end up hurting a team in the long run more than the possibility that the deal is less than a bargain for the end of the contract. Having a player start a five year deal holding a grudge because of contentious negotiations could really blow ip in thier faces.
I also like that St. Louis has had a relationship with Boras that seems to work better than other clubs, the Angels, for instance, seem to have a policy of not dealing at all with Boras, limiting thier ability to negotiate with a great deal of elite players.
At the end of the day St. Louis got the guy they wanted, look like the favorite in the division, and seem to be in good position to lock up Albert. So if they overspent to marry Hally Berry, at least their still married to Hally Berry and not in the produce aisle pricing cantalopes.

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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by obucard »

AWvsCBsteeeerike3 wrote:I would like a logical explanation as to why someone would suggest this is one of the worst signings in baseball.

Was there another bidder? Probably not. Does that mean Holliday was overpaid? Absolutely not. As long as he performs up to expectations, well, then this was a great signing.

Part of it is the lack of bidders. Part comes from the assumption that Pujols will demand 35 million/year. Part of it is unfairly blaming A-Rod's contract on the Rangers sucking (ignoring the slew of bad contracts they gave other players). The 3 come together to cause the belief that this will either cause the Cards to be too cheap to re-sign Albert (because the best player should be paid the highest and money is all these ballplayers care about anyway) or re-signing him will hamstring the team's ability to compete with 2 players taking up 50% of the payroll.

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Re: Update: HOLLIDAY A CARD 7yr/120 million, p178

Post by Richie Allen »

lukethedrifter wrote:I don't believe that Boras ever thought he was gonna get Tex money for Holliday.
December 11th, 2009: The agent continues to expect Mark Teixeira-money for Holliday, eight years, $180 million.

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