Trump & Russia & Stormy & Obstruction & Money Laundering Etc

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cardinalkarp
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Re: Trump & Russia & Stormy & Obstruction & Money Laundering

Post by cardinalkarp »

GeddyWrox wrote:New evidence about Don Jr secretly meeting with Torshin, set up by Butina, and how she infiltrated GOP and NRA.

While I'm not saying we shouldn't care about this stuff.....we should stop fooling ourselves that anything is going to come of it.
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Mary1966
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Re: Trump & Russia & Stormy & Obstruction & Money Laundering

Post by Mary1966 »

cardinalkarp wrote:
GeddyWrox wrote:New evidence about Don Jr secretly meeting with Torshin, set up by Butina, and how she infiltrated GOP and NRA.

While I'm not saying we shouldn't care about this stuff.....we should stop fooling ourselves that anything is going to come of it.
This guy’s (ex-Overstock CEO Patrick Byrne) claims on interaction with the FBI have been denied by James Comey so I don’t know how trustworthy this claim is.
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33anda3rd
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Re: Trump & Russia & Stormy & Obstruction & Money Laundering

Post by 33anda3rd »

Mary1966 wrote:This guy’s (ex-Overstock CEO Patrick Byrne) claims on interaction with the FBI have been denied by James Comey so I don’t know how trustworthy this claim is.
Similarly I'm not certain Seth Abramson is not Avenatti Lite: an outrage profiteer who has come of age in the Trump era as a Tweeter and a talking head on TV who would have no public profile were Trump not POTUS. He has urgent BREAKING NEWS that's not really news a bit too often. And those overlong Twitter threads where he claims to prove things that are speculative--reasonably believable, but speculative.
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Re: Trump & Russia & Stormy & Obstruction & Money Laundering

Post by Jocephus »

there's one type of tweeter that lists all the outrageous things that have happened in the day and then it ends with some sort of timestamp like

outrage
outrage
outrage
outrage
outrage
outrage
it's only 11am

and they're always popular
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33anda3rd
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Re: Trump & Russia & Stormy & Obstruction & Money Laundering

Post by 33anda3rd »

True, and I'm probably underselling Abramson by calling him Avenatti Lite. Abramson himself is a cancer. A guy who wrote a bunch of Sanders fan fiction on HuffPo in 2016 like "Proof Sanders Is Winning This Election" or "Proof Sanders is More Popular Than Clinton" in a primary in which Clinton whooped Sanders. This is part of why we now have Bernie Bros shouting on the internet about how Sanders is actually the most popular candidate, polls don't matter, exit polls don't matter, results don't matter. It's why we have folks acting like The Squad, who are only four voices, should dictate party direction instead of the other several hundred Congresspeople. A big part of the reason Trump's scare tactics involve portraying The Squad as the Democrats as a whole is even Donald Trump is smart enough to understand that The Squad (and Sanders) don't represent policies that are widely popular with Americans, very much in contrast to what the Bernie Bros believe. Sanders and The Squad are deeply ethical, thoughtful, empathetic, engaging, wonderful, on the right side of almost all policies, but they are not widely popular outside the crowd of Very Online progressives. Stuff like Abramson lying about the realities of politics--just bald-faced misrepresentations presented as "proof" or "facts"--is a big part of that problem and it's going to end up contributing to disengaging voters down the road. Young people who don't understand that national politics is a long game of incremental gains are going to end up pissed that five people are not getting immediately anointed and allowed to dictate policy and they're going to disengage.
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Re: Trump & Russia & Stormy & Obstruction & Money Laundering

Post by pioneer98 »

That's weird because Bernie was not anointed in 2016. He got beat pretty good. But his voters did not disengage. They are still here. Maybe he hasn't grown his base a whole lot, but it definitely hasn't shrunk. And IDK but AOC seems like she is pretty widely popular, and more than just with the extremely online crowd.
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Re: Trump & Russia & Stormy & Obstruction & Money Laundering

Post by pioneer98 »

Jocephus wrote:there's one type of tweeter that lists all the outrageous things that have happened in the day and then it ends with some sort of timestamp like

outrage
outrage
outrage
outrage
outrage
outrage
it's only 11am

and they're always popular
Back in 2017 I put together a list of things that happened in like a 3 week span in the Summer of 2017. It was quite long so I had to type it and then screenshot it and tweet it, and I ended it with "All that was just in the last 3 weeks" and it was probably in my top 3 most retweeted tweets I ever had. I'm really not on there any more though and it's been good for my mental health.
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Re: Trump & Russia & Stormy & Obstruction & Money Laundering

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pioneer98 wrote:That's weird because Bernie was not anointed in 2016. He got beat pretty good. But his voters did not disengage. They are still here. Maybe he hasn't grown his base a whole lot, but it definitely hasn't shrunk. And IDK but AOC seems like she is pretty widely popular, and more than just with the extremely online crowd.
That’s all incorrect. AOC is popular online. She’s great but she’s an overwhelming minority voice. Sanders can’t crack 20% in polls. Trump would love if he got the nom. He’d run on Socialism Is Awful and would get the pop vote and the EC. A lot of Bernie 2016 supporters have shifted to Warren.
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Re: Trump & Russia & Stormy & Obstruction & Money Laundering

Post by GeddyWrox »

Abramson has connected more dots on trump/russia than just about anyone outside of maybe Rachel Maddow. Perhaps he's "OUTRAGED" because he sees how [expletive] up all of this is and they're getting away with it. Maybe we should all be as outraged as him.

But I do agree it's moot. Nothing's going to happen at least until Rump is voted out. And I'm not even hopeful of that. But we shouldn't stop paying attention to all this [expletive]. [expletive].
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pioneer98
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Re: Trump & Russia & Stormy & Obstruction & Money Laundering

Post by pioneer98 »

33anda3rd wrote:
pioneer98 wrote:That's weird because Bernie was not anointed in 2016. He got beat pretty good. But his voters did not disengage. They are still here. Maybe he hasn't grown his base a whole lot, but it definitely hasn't shrunk. And IDK but AOC seems like she is pretty widely popular, and more than just with the extremely online crowd.
That’s all incorrect. AOC is popular online. She’s great but she’s an overwhelming minority voice. Sanders can’t crack 20% in polls. Trump would love if he got the nom. He’d run on Socialism Is Awful and would get the pop vote and the EC. A lot of Bernie 2016 supporters have shifted to Warren.

This is what I was replying to:
Young people who don't understand that national politics is a long game of incremental gains are going to end up pissed that five people are not getting immediately anointed and allowed to dictate policy and they're going to disengage.
And what I'm saying is this already happened - Bernie got screwed - and these voters did get pissed but they did not disengage. They are still very engaged. Groups like DSA and Our Revolution sprang out of his run.

If you look at the polls, Bernie has been stuck at like 17% to 18% for a long, long time. That's roughly where he was polling back in January. I could try to back this with actual data but, this is roughly what's happened:

January --> August:
Biden 30% --> 29%
Bernie 17% --> 17%
Warren 7% --> 14%
Kamala 12% --> 7%
Mayor Pete 0% --> 3%
Beto 7% --> 3%
All others 27% --> 27%

Warren and Mayor Pete mainly stole voters from Kamala and Beto, and maybe they got a handful from Biden.
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