Immigration raids and deportations

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Freed Roger
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Re: Immigration raids and deportations

Post by Freed Roger »

Freed Roger wrote:
Freed Roger wrote:
G. Keenan wrote:
Freed Roger wrote:
G. Keenan wrote:
Joe Shlabotnik wrote:I'm afraid all those statistics will tell a Trumpist "Jobs for Real Americans!".

What I don't understand about these orders is why doesn't it do anything to address the root cause?

Why are these people coming to this country? Would these people be taking their lives into their hands and leaving family and friends for an alien land just for the hell of it? Of course not. Because they know they can get work!

So where are the penalties and stepped up enforcement against business owners and individuals that hire illegals? I'm pretty sure if you address that effectively, you won't need a wall.
Our country has a long history of importing cheap labor. We used slaves for as long as we could get away with it, then invented share cropping when slavery wasn't cool anymore. We've been importing Mexican and Central American laborers for over 100 years. The hypocrisy inherent in the villainizing of "illegal" immigrants is sickening because it is so [expletive] cruel.

The fact is huge sectors of our economy want and need these workers here illegally. If they are undocumented, they are forced to work for less than minimum wage, no benefits, no healthcare, no safety, etc. etc. Agriculture, hospitality, home health care, construction, sanitation, child care, and the list goes on. Undocumented workers mean bigger profits for the CEO and shareholders, lower prices for consumers. Then of course you have the payroll taxes they pay into our social safety net, the sales taxes they generate, without being able to actually receive govt. benefits in return.

They are a win win for us lucky citizens and all they are trying to do is work hard, save up some money, and make a better life for their kids. Many legislators oppose a path the citizenship for these workers because to do so would mean the industries that finance their campaigns would have to start paying them and treating them like citizens.

The truth is the Trump has no clue how to improve the economy. If you can't keep the doors open at a casino where people walk in and literally just give you money, how the hell are you going to revamp the US industrial base? Much easier to just blame the "other" and scapegoat people who have no voice and very little legal protection.

If this goes down and Trump rounds up millions of people who have lived here for decades, hurting no one and benefiting everyone, it will be a scare on our national morality that we can never recover from.
Deportations are tougher to combat, compared to travel ban. No checks and balances for the poor immigrants. Hell, TrumpGOP is denying civil rights to poor US citizens - immigrants don't stand a chance. Protests, sharing stories of people you know, resisting- that just shows the [expletive] where to look.

My brother has an illegal immigrant ex-student, a good one - they tried unsuccessfully to help her get into college. He could attempt to contact thru FB, but doesn't want to draw attention to her. Unlike the travel ban, where everybody was telling their story, you have to think twice about it as an illegal immigrant. If this goes down, there's chances it happens right in front of us - but without much notice (or at least not as much notice as merited).
Like with the travel ban, he may find it harder to do this than he thinks. Domestically, most people who are here illegally did not swim across the Rio Grande or come over Niagara Falls in a barrel. They came here legally on some kind of Visa; tourist, temporary worker, etc. and never left. Those people are not "undocumented" and have recourse in the legal system to delay their deportation through appeals.

Also, deporting people requires the cooperation of the country to which you want to deport them. Those countries must furnish them with the necessary travel documents to enter. Given the hostility of the Trump admin to countries like Mexico there is no guarantee that they will be very cooperative when it comes to repatriating their own citizens, or detaining future asylum seekers on their soil while their claim processes in the US.

Everyone agrees that violent criminals and dangerous people here illegally should be deported. Rounding up people who pose no threat to society is going to have soooooooo many unintended consequences. What do we do with the kids who are US citizens who no longer have parents because they have been deported? What do we do about all the US citizens who are financially dependent on illegals? Who foots the bill for that? Who foots the bill for the detention centers we have to staff when countries like Mexico and Poland don't just roll over and agree to help the Trump admin deport their citizens? All manner of businesses will incur costs when their employees don't show up to work one day because they have been arrested.

Net migration of Mexican nationals to the US since 2008 is zero. Mexico has been very cooperative with the US when it comes do detaining migrants transiting through Mexico trying to get to the US and deporting them back to their home countries. Why should Mexico continue to do so when the US is targeting it's citizens here? What happens to their economy when remittances from family members working in the US sending money back home plummet. Where will those people go looking for work?

It's going to be such a humanitarian and economic cluster [expletive].

If Trump wants to raise wages for the types of jobs now filled by illegal immigrants he should be offering them a path to citizenship, raising the minimum wage, cutting the red tape for farmers to get temporary worker visas to harvest their crops, and cracking down on the big businesses that hire illegal workers in the first place.

Good info Geen. Thanks for posting that.

based on your info I just donated (albeit small $) to http://www.maldef.org/
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Michael
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Re: Immigration raids and deportations

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wart57 wrote:
Joe Shlabotnik wrote:Really Wart, this is the kind of thing that frustrated me throughout both Clinton and Obama administrations. The right would complain about anything EVEN IF IT MATCHED THEIR AGENDA. Clinton was the closest thing to a GOP president the right could expect from a Democrat - more conservative than any Democrat president in 50 years. But, jeezus, you'd have thought he was the devil himself.
Kind of what we are seeing from the Left now, except, that Trump might in fact be the devil.
The key difference is despite Trump's claims Obama went after criminal illegal immigrants. Trump wants to detain and deport undocumented immigrants and legal immigrants with criminal records. Basically, the expansion is looking to be huge.

From your article:
President Obama directed U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to focus on criminals, not families, during his November 2014 executive action on immigration.
"Felons, not families. Criminals, not children. Gang members, not a mom who’s working hard to provide for her kids. We’ll prioritize, just like law enforcement does every day," Obama said in November 2014 when announcing his executive action on immigration.
From the article I posted earlier in this thread:
President Donald Trump pledged during his campaign to create a deportation force. Now, he’s equipped federal immigration agents with the tools to potentially remove millions of immigrants from the country.

The Department of Homeland Security issued a pair of guidance memos Tuesday that gives federal immigration agents wide latitude to arrest, detain and deport undocumented immigrants and legal immigrants with criminal records.
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wart57
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Re: Immigration raids and deportations

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Michael wrote:
wart57 wrote:
Joe Shlabotnik wrote:Really Wart, this is the kind of thing that frustrated me throughout both Clinton and Obama administrations. The right would complain about anything EVEN IF IT MATCHED THEIR AGENDA. Clinton was the closest thing to a GOP president the right could expect from a Democrat - more conservative than any Democrat president in 50 years. But, jeezus, you'd have thought he was the devil himself.
Kind of what we are seeing from the Left now, except, that Trump might in fact be the devil.
The key difference is despite Trump's claims Obama went after criminal illegal immigrants. Trump wants to detain and deport undocumented immigrants and legal immigrants with criminal records.

From your article:
President Obama directed U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to focus on criminals, not families, during his November 2014 executive action on immigration.
"Felons, not families. Criminals, not children. Gang members, not a mom who’s working hard to provide for her kids. We’ll prioritize, just like law enforcement does every day," Obama said in November 2014 when announcing his executive action on immigration.
From the article I posted earlier in this thread:
President Donald Trump pledged during his campaign to create a deportation force. Now, he’s equipped federal immigration agents with the tools to potentially remove millions of immigrants from the country.

The Department of Homeland Security issued a pair of guidance memos Tuesday that gives federal immigration agents wide latitude to arrest, detain and deport undocumented immigrants and legal immigrants with criminal records.
I happen to know several Legal Romanian immigrants who were deported under Obama because of criminal records. I know several illegal Romanians who were deported due to criminal activities, and i know quite a few illegals who are scared they are going to be caught and deported - they have children who were born here.
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Re: Immigration raids and deportations

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http://krwg.org/post/maldef-statement-r ... t-activity
[SHOW]
MALDEF Statement on Recent ICE Enforcement Activity
By MALDEF • FEB 11, 2017

The following statement on recent nationwide arrests by federal immigration officials was issued by MALDEF President and General Counsel Thomas A. Saenz:

"MALDEF is greatly concerned about widespread reports of increased federal immigration activities in the interior of the United States. The reported activities are a disturbing manifestation of the failed leadership of our federal government. Terrorizing immigrant families is not leadership; it is the epitome of cowardice, injustice, and cruelty.

Calculated public denials, by the federal agencies, of the full scope of these abhorrent activities demonstrates at least some cognizance of the counterproductive nature of the enforcement. However, there is no justification for failing to acknowledge and detail the full scope of the enforcement activities.

The extent of central direction of the enforcement activities is unclear. The haphazard nature of the activities and the denials of central direction suggest an appalling lack of command and control over agencies whose troubling histories of unconstitutional and non-transparent rights violations demand greater control, not less. His military background should lead Secretary Kelly to recognize the necessity of controlling Department of Homeland security rank-and-file officers, and he should act swiftly on that recognition.

Especially problematic are reports of collateral arrests of bystanders who happen to be present when warrants are executed. Collateral arrests for civil immigration violations are execrable acts characteristic of totalitarian regimes, not of the United States. This un-American practice must cease.

Also troubling are the apparent deportations of persons with final orders of removal where the previous Administration had exercised appropriate discretion to defer executing the orders. The irony is inescapable. Donald Trump, a person of great privilege and tremendous resources from the very day he was born, has demonstrated an increased penchant for publicly accusing judges and courts of being unfairly biased against him, both as a private businessperson and in public office. Yet, Trump apparently fails to recognize that poor immigrants facing language barriers and lack of legal representation might face far more substantial issues of bias and unfairness in the Immigration Court system – a system with far fewer protections of due process than the federal courts of which Trump has complained – and in state criminal court systems.

The removal of Guadalupe Garcia de Rayos in Arizona epitomizes the problem. Garcia de Rayos apparently became a removal priority because she was once arrested by a sheriff’s department led by Joe Arpaio, a notorious racist adjudicated as such by federal courts, and was subsequently convicted of the ‘crime’ of working to support her family. Removing immigrants for working to support family violates many of the principles that have long made our country great.

Yes, there is injustice in our legal system, but it is not often experienced by wealthy and privileged businessmen. It is far more often experienced by poor immigrants of color demonized by irresponsible political leaders. And now that injustice is compounded by prioritized deportation. Sad."
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wart57
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Re: Immigration raids and deportations

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The Woman in the story above was guilty of illegally using someones identity.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/09/us/arizon ... -protests/
Garcia de Rayos has two children who were born in Arizona.
She came illegally to the United States in the mid-1990s with her parents when she was 14. She was arrested in 2008 during a workplace raid and convicted one year later of felony criminal impersonation.
After her conviction she appealed a court order to voluntarily deport and lost. She became the subject of a removal order in 2013 and was placed court-ordered supervision, which required her to report on a provided schedule to an ICE office until her order of removal was "affected," or acted on.
What we know about this Arizona mother's deportation
What we know about this woman's deportation
US immigration officials acknowledged that she was compliant with her supervision order. She showed up for each of her seven immigration check-ins prior to Wednesday.
Officials said her case had followed the legal system process and it was time for her to go back to her home country.
"(Her) immigration case underwent review at multiple levels of the immigration court system, including the Board of Immigration Appeals, and the judges held she did not have a legal basis to remain in the US," ICE said in a statement.
Carlos Garcia, director of immigration rights group Puente Arizona, said "ICE had done what President Trump wanted -- which is deport and separate our families."
What was supposed to happen with her? Just leave her alone, even though there was an order of removal from 2013?
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Re: Immigration raids and deportations

Post by Freed Roger »

wart57 wrote:The Woman in the story above was guilty of illegally using someones identity.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/09/us/arizon ... -protests/
Garcia de Rayos has two children who were born in Arizona.
She came illegally to the United States in the mid-1990s with her parents when she was 14. She was arrested in 2008 during a workplace raid and convicted one year later of felony criminal impersonation.
After her conviction she appealed a court order to voluntarily deport and lost. She became the subject of a removal order in 2013 and was placed court-ordered supervision, which required her to report on a provided schedule to an ICE office until her order of removal was "affected," or acted on.
What we know about this Arizona mother's deportation
What we know about this woman's deportation
US immigration officials acknowledged that she was compliant with her supervision order. She showed up for each of her seven immigration check-ins prior to Wednesday.
Officials said her case had followed the legal system process and it was time for her to go back to her home country.
"(Her) immigration case underwent review at multiple levels of the immigration court system, including the Board of Immigration Appeals, and the judges held she did not have a legal basis to remain in the US," ICE said in a statement.
Carlos Garcia, director of immigration rights group Puente Arizona, said "ICE had done what President Trump wanted -- which is deport and separate our families."
What was supposed to happen with her? Just leave her alone, even though there was an order of removal from 2013?
Yes.
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G. Keenan
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Re: Immigration raids and deportations

Post by G. Keenan »

wart57 wrote:
Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
Why should it be fake? It just might be that Obama took immigration seriously and was doing something about it? Nahhhhhhh.
Then why was there no outrage when he was doing it, but there is now that Trump is? It Trump going about it differently, I am genuinely curious, I am not trying to bate anyone or trying to equate the 2 Presidents.
I haven't clicked that link, but I know that Obama was very aggressive with deportations, much more than his critics on the right ever acknowledged. Obama was big-time deporter. Under Obama the border with Mexico (and Canada) was beefed up tremendously with more agents, cameras, drones, and the like. The key difference between what Obama did and what Trump says he will do is that Obama's deportations were mostly for people convicted of serious crimes. Trump's order would deport those convicted of even minor crimes, like traffic tickets, and even those simply accused but not convicted of crimes. Under Obama there was also an expedited deportation process that sped things up for anyone caught within 100 miles of the border who had been in the country for less than 14 days. Trump is expanding that to anyone caught anywhere in the country who has been here less than two years.

Trump also wants to deputize local state and municipal law enforcement to arrest people for federal immigration violations. That is something that many city police departments do not want to be involved with. He wants to hire thousands more ICE agents, build more detention facilities (which would be private prisons), and build a wall. The will cost the US taxpayers billions upon billions of dollars, all to remove people who commit crimes at lower rates than natural born citizens (fact) and contribute more to the economy than they take out (fact).

Trump also intends to publish a weekly list of illegal immigrants convicted of crimes no matter how minor, which is just scary, weird, and horrible. His intention is clear. He wants to scare people into thinking that immigrant = criminal.
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wart57
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Re: Immigration raids and deportations

Post by wart57 »

Freed Roger wrote:
wart57 wrote:The Woman in the story above was guilty of illegally using someones identity.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/09/us/arizon ... -protests/
Garcia de Rayos has two children who were born in Arizona.
She came illegally to the United States in the mid-1990s with her parents when she was 14. She was arrested in 2008 during a workplace raid and convicted one year later of felony criminal impersonation.
After her conviction she appealed a court order to voluntarily deport and lost. She became the subject of a removal order in 2013 and was placed court-ordered supervision, which required her to report on a provided schedule to an ICE office until her order of removal was "affected," or acted on.
What we know about this Arizona mother's deportation
What we know about this woman's deportation
US immigration officials acknowledged that she was compliant with her supervision order. She showed up for each of her seven immigration check-ins prior to Wednesday.
Officials said her case had followed the legal system process and it was time for her to go back to her home country.
"(Her) immigration case underwent review at multiple levels of the immigration court system, including the Board of Immigration Appeals, and the judges held she did not have a legal basis to remain in the US," ICE said in a statement.
Carlos Garcia, director of immigration rights group Puente Arizona, said "ICE had done what President Trump wanted -- which is deport and separate our families."
What was supposed to happen with her? Just leave her alone, even though there was an order of removal from 2013?
Yes.
Do the court systems and laws mean nothing in this country if you don't agree with them?
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Re: Immigration raids and deportations

Post by Freed Roger »

wart57 wrote:
Freed Roger wrote:
wart57 wrote:The Woman in the story above was guilty of illegally using someones identity.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/09/us/arizon ... -protests/
Garcia de Rayos has two children who were born in Arizona.
She came illegally to the United States in the mid-1990s with her parents when she was 14. She was arrested in 2008 during a workplace raid and convicted one year later of felony criminal impersonation.
After her conviction she appealed a court order to voluntarily deport and lost. She became the subject of a removal order in 2013 and was placed court-ordered supervision, which required her to report on a provided schedule to an ICE office until her order of removal was "affected," or acted on.
What we know about this Arizona mother's deportation
What we know about this woman's deportation
US immigration officials acknowledged that she was compliant with her supervision order. She showed up for each of her seven immigration check-ins prior to Wednesday.
Officials said her case had followed the legal system process and it was time for her to go back to her home country.
"(Her) immigration case underwent review at multiple levels of the immigration court system, including the Board of Immigration Appeals, and the judges held she did not have a legal basis to remain in the US," ICE said in a statement.
Carlos Garcia, director of immigration rights group Puente Arizona, said "ICE had done what President Trump wanted -- which is deport and separate our families."
What was supposed to happen with her? Just leave her alone, even though there was an order of removal from 2013?
Yes.
Do the court systems and laws mean nothing in this country if you don't agree with them?
Joe Arpaio doesn't follow them, and he is the law.
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wart57
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Re: Immigration raids and deportations

Post by wart57 »

Freed Roger wrote:
wart57 wrote:
Freed Roger wrote:
wart57 wrote:The Woman in the story above was guilty of illegally using someones identity.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/09/us/arizon ... -protests/
Garcia de Rayos has two children who were born in Arizona.
She came illegally to the United States in the mid-1990s with her parents when she was 14. She was arrested in 2008 during a workplace raid and convicted one year later of felony criminal impersonation.
After her conviction she appealed a court order to voluntarily deport and lost. She became the subject of a removal order in 2013 and was placed court-ordered supervision, which required her to report on a provided schedule to an ICE office until her order of removal was "affected," or acted on.
What we know about this Arizona mother's deportation
What we know about this woman's deportation
US immigration officials acknowledged that she was compliant with her supervision order. She showed up for each of her seven immigration check-ins prior to Wednesday.
Officials said her case had followed the legal system process and it was time for her to go back to her home country.
"(Her) immigration case underwent review at multiple levels of the immigration court system, including the Board of Immigration Appeals, and the judges held she did not have a legal basis to remain in the US," ICE said in a statement.
Carlos Garcia, director of immigration rights group Puente Arizona, said "ICE had done what President Trump wanted -- which is deport and separate our families."
What was supposed to happen with her? Just leave her alone, even though there was an order of removal from 2013?
Yes.
Do the court systems and laws mean nothing in this country if you don't agree with them?
Joe Arpaio doesn't follow them, and he is the law.
He is also being charged with Federal Contempt of court and could do jail time...

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/18/us/s ... .html?_r=0
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