Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Political and religious discussions go here. Tread lightly.
Post Reply
Freed Roger
Seeking a Zubaz seamstress
Posts: 25199
Joined: September 4 07, 1:48 pm
Location: St. Louis

Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by Freed Roger »

Leroy wrote:I think they both stink. But somehow, people seem to trust more a known liar, that keeps lying and doesn't care...I felt that way about Bill Clinton. It is the sneaky liar that makes themselves out to be a truth teller that people seem to be suspicious about. I don't know. Maybe human nature.
There's something to this -human nature. This is all generalizing, but As you say, Bill Clinton faced scrutiny but no real penalty among the populace (his wife paid though).... The GWB regime lies that led us to war in Iraq.... Trump ad nauseam. (I'm not trying to draw equivalencies, just rambling)

Part of it is these guys have so much power, that it's impossible to use the same justice process for them that it does for lesser citizens.

However, human nature-wise the bigger the liar - the more we (in general) shrug our shoulders over it. Powerful people lying is like bad weather to us. And we feel like there's nothing we can do to stop it from raining.
User avatar
pioneer98
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 20599
Joined: July 15 08, 8:24 pm
Location: Low A Minors

Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by pioneer98 »

Leroy wrote:I think they both stink. But somehow, people seem to trust more a known liar, that keeps lying and doesn't care...I felt that way about Bill Clinton. It is the sneaky liar that makes themselves out to be a truth teller that people seem to be suspicious about. I don't know. Maybe human nature.
I believe that many of the people who thought both Trump and Hillary were very untrustworthy just didn't vote for either one. I know a couple people who just left their ballot blank for president, which happened a lot this time around. I also know people who voted for Johnson or Stein.

There is still a bunch of smart people out there who believe the things Trump says about Russia - that he didn't know anything, no ties, etc. As long as he can just say "Fake news!" about anything bad and have enough people believe him, the circus will continue. I don't know what it will take to break that spell, either. Maybe after the 500th time Trump says "Fake news!" people will start to wonder? I don't know. I do think people will eventually tire of his act, especially when they see he's not getting the results he promised.
User avatar
Michael
has a link from 538 to share
Posts: 34899
Joined: December 31 69, 6:00 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by Michael »

pioneer98 wrote: I do think people will eventually tire of his act, especially when they see he's not getting the results he promised.

Gallup: Trump hits low 37 percent approval
President Donald Trump’s approval rating is at a low 37 percent, according to Gallup daily tracking poll results released Monday.

A solid majority of Americans polled, 58 percent, said they disapprove of the president’s job performance.
Freed Roger
Seeking a Zubaz seamstress
Posts: 25199
Joined: September 4 07, 1:48 pm
Location: St. Louis

Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by Freed Roger »

Michael wrote:
pioneer98 wrote: I do think people will eventually tire of his act, especially when they see he's not getting the results he promised.

Gallup: Trump hits low 37 percent approval
President Donald Trump’s approval rating is at a low 37 percent, according to Gallup daily tracking poll results released Monday.

A solid majority of Americans polled, 58 percent, said they disapprove of the president’s job performance.
GOP must be pretty confident in their gerrymandering structure.
User avatar
Michael
has a link from 538 to share
Posts: 34899
Joined: December 31 69, 6:00 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by Michael »

There's real suffering happening with his base:
Rural America is facing an existential crisis. As cities continue to grow and prosper, small towns are shrinking. That fundamental divide played itself out in the recent presidential election.

Consider this shocking chart produced by the Brookings Institution. It shows that, in 2000, George W. Bush won 2,397 counties (compared to Al Gore's 659), and those counties represented 46% of America's GDP. Fast forward to 2016. Donald Trump won an even larger share: 2,584 counties (compared to Hillary Clinton's 472). Yet, counties that voted for Trump accounted for only 36% of the nation's GDP. Since most Bush counties also voted for Trump, that means -- in a span of just 16 years -- economic productivity shifted by 10 percentage points, away from small town America and toward the big cities.

The trend is clear: Rural America is literally fading away. It shouldn't come as a surprise, therefore, that the opioid overdose epidemic has hit rural states, like Kentucky and West Virginia, especially hard. And the latest research from the CDC also shouldn't come as a surprise: Suicides in rural America (labeled as non-core) have increased over 40% in 16 years.
Link


I'm obviously upset about Trump becomnig president, but when things are dire some people go dark.
User avatar
IMADreamer
Has an anecdote about a townie he overheard.
Posts: 11658
Joined: December 6 10, 1:09 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by IMADreamer »

Drugs are a huge issue out here. Everyone knows it, no one talks about it. Meth is making a big comeback here. A few years ago it was thought that meth was on it's way out here but it's back in a big way. I hear heroin is bad here too but I think it's not as obvious as meth maybe.

It shouldn't be a surprise though, follow the poverty and you'll find the drugs. Poverty has exploded out here too. I wonder what kind of community I will live in 20 years from now. It surely will look nothing like it does now. I'm just afraid it will look like a war zone. dilapidated buildings, homeless on the street, etc.
User avatar
Popeye_Card
GRB's most intelligent & humble poster
Posts: 27280
Joined: April 17 06, 11:25 am

Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by Popeye_Card »

Michael wrote:There's real suffering happening with his base:
Rural America is facing an existential crisis. As cities continue to grow and prosper, small towns are shrinking. That fundamental divide played itself out in the recent presidential election.

Consider this shocking chart produced by the Brookings Institution. It shows that, in 2000, George W. Bush won 2,397 counties (compared to Al Gore's 659), and those counties represented 46% of America's GDP. Fast forward to 2016. Donald Trump won an even larger share: 2,584 counties (compared to Hillary Clinton's 472). Yet, counties that voted for Trump accounted for only 36% of the nation's GDP. Since most Bush counties also voted for Trump, that means -- in a span of just 16 years -- economic productivity shifted by 10 percentage points, away from small town America and toward the big cities.

The trend is clear: Rural America is literally fading away. It shouldn't come as a surprise, therefore, that the opioid overdose epidemic has hit rural states, like Kentucky and West Virginia, especially hard. And the latest research from the CDC also shouldn't come as a surprise: Suicides in rural America (labeled as non-core) have increased over 40% in 16 years.
Link


I'm obviously upset about Trump becomnig president, but when things are dire some people go dark.
Wow. That's a bigger decline than I anticipated. Goes a long way in explaining why the country and economy has generally been positively progressing during the Bush and Obama years, rural areas tend to think the country has gone to hell and we need to become great again. I always assumed this, but the figures really drive it home.

I mean, Trump obviously will not be changing that trend. If anything all of the policies he is promoting will have the opposite effect. But boy was he good at working up fury among that rural/small town base that Democrat policies were the problem, and he has the solutions.
User avatar
JCShutout
MacGyver of Underwear
Posts: 12555
Joined: April 18 06, 7:53 am
Location: South City

Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by JCShutout »

A few post ago, so I'm late, but I've been thinking during this whole healthcare fiasco, that this may just be the crisis that the US needs to finally decide that we need some form of universal healthcare, in a form far superior than the ABA.

What sucks is how many people will suffer in the mean time, but it feels like the paradigm has shifted. That most people now want some form of assured healthcare. Time will tell obviously... but, maybe... just maybe... /hope
Freed Roger
Seeking a Zubaz seamstress
Posts: 25199
Joined: September 4 07, 1:48 pm
Location: St. Louis

Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by Freed Roger »

JCShutout wrote:A few post ago, so I'm late, but I've been thinking during this whole healthcare fiasco, that this may just be the crisis that the US needs to finally decide that we need some form of universal healthcare, in a form far superior than the ABA.

What sucks is how many people will suffer in the mean time, but it feels like the paradigm has shifted. That most people now want some form of assured healthcare. Time will tell obviously... but, maybe... just maybe... /hope
i mentioned this fancy notion in other thread. GOP is blowing a chance to run with this. And since it would be their plan to go universal, their devoted would go along. Maybe they could win new voters and elections without as much BS and gerrymandering. It would be good for (most) Business. Most would love to be disentangled from healthcare.
User avatar
pioneer98
Hall Of Famer
Posts: 20599
Joined: July 15 08, 8:24 pm
Location: Low A Minors

Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by pioneer98 »

Michael wrote:There's real suffering happening with his base:
Rural America is facing an existential crisis. As cities continue to grow and prosper, small towns are shrinking. That fundamental divide played itself out in the recent presidential election.

Consider this shocking chart produced by the Brookings Institution. It shows that, in 2000, George W. Bush won 2,397 counties (compared to Al Gore's 659), and those counties represented 46% of America's GDP. Fast forward to 2016. Donald Trump won an even larger share: 2,584 counties (compared to Hillary Clinton's 472). Yet, counties that voted for Trump accounted for only 36% of the nation's GDP. Since most Bush counties also voted for Trump, that means -- in a span of just 16 years -- economic productivity shifted by 10 percentage points, away from small town America and toward the big cities.

The trend is clear: Rural America is literally fading away. It shouldn't come as a surprise, therefore, that the opioid overdose epidemic has hit rural states, like Kentucky and West Virginia, especially hard. And the latest research from the CDC also shouldn't come as a surprise: Suicides in rural America (labeled as non-core) have increased over 40% in 16 years.
Link

I'm obviously upset about Trump becomnig president, but when things are dire some people go dark.


Also don't forget that this issue intersects with gun safety laws. About half of suicides in this country are with guns. And those account for nearly 2/3 of gun-related deaths. And among teens, suicide rates are twice as high in rural areas than in urban areas. Suicides are now more common among teens than homicides.

http://www.prb.org/Publications/Article ... teens.aspx
Post Reply