Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

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themiddle54
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Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

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Joe Shlabotnik wrote:
themiddle54 wrote:
IMADreamer wrote:It's interesting that these people didn't know that.
So how did they not get that Trump's policies could crash their livelihoods? It was there, in his message. I alone can fix this, I will kill TPP, I will get us out of NAFTA, I will build a wall between us and Mexico. Hey you corn growers who rely on exports, I will alienate the outside world with an America-only platform that makes outsiders like us less and thus be less likely to consume what you produce.

If they know that their business relies on TPP and on Mexicans consuming American corn, why did the corn voters vote for the guy who said--literally said out loud repeatedly and clearly--that he would do things that are bad for them?

This applies to any non-multi-millionaire in the US: what on earth was in that man's message that could possibly appeal to them? There's the racism, the misogyny, the xenophobia, the islamophobia, the white nationalism, and...what else? What did that guy say on the trail that a 55 year old white farmer in Southern IL could reasonably hear and go "oh, yeah, this is my guy right here"?
Because, yo - her email server dude!
Yeah but seriously though. Who does that? How do you hear: "I will stop being friends with the country that you export most of your product to" and not go "oh hold your horses there kemosabe"?

I want so badly to understand this and to not think these people are just [expletive] stupid to their core but I'm not left with much choice. Because this behavior, voting for Trump, is so lacking in common sense that it can't be much else.
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Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by IMADreamer »

themiddle54 wrote:
IMADreamer wrote:It's interesting that these people didn't know that.
So how did they not get that Trump's policies could crash their livelihoods? It was there, in his message. I alone can fix this, I will kill TPP, I will get us out of NAFTA, I will build a wall between us and Mexico. Hey you corn growers who rely on exports, I will alienate the outside world with an America-only platform that makes outsiders like us less and thus be less likely to consume what you produce.

If they know that their business relies on TPP and on Mexicans consuming American corn, why did the corn voters vote for the guy who said--literally said out loud repeatedly and clearly--that he would do things that are bad for them?

This applies to any non-multi-millionaire in the US: what on earth was in that man's message that could possibly appeal to them? There's the racism, the misogyny, the xenophobia, the islamophobia, the white nationalism, and...what else? What did that guy say on the trail that a 55 year old white farmer in Southern IL could reasonably hear and go "oh, yeah, this is my guy right here"?


It's a great question, and I know a lot of farmers who didnt' vote for Trump because they knew what would happen. I also know of some who voted for him because of his promise to spend on infrastructure. Particularly upgrades to the locks on the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers which are in desperate shape.

pioneer98 wrote:Do cattle and pork producers benefit from cheap corn (feed)? And maybe some of the processors that turn corn into other goods? Or is it more complicated than that?

Regardless, even "normal", non-Trump Republicans aren't really big supporters of farmers per se, they are more big supporters of Big Ag - the big corporate farms, ADM, Monsanto, Deere, etc. All of those get hurt when the ag economy suffers, but the people hurt are the workers and farmers. The wealthy people that own those companies don't get hurt much and continue throwing piles of money at Republicans, even in downturns.

Livestock producers do benefit from cheap corn, but they will get hurt in any Mexican embargo too. However a lot of livestock producers are also corn growers. changing products for corn is a little dicey. For example the corn you feed to cows is different then the corn you eat. Which is all different than corn for ethanol, but ethanol has a biproduct you can feed to cows. Then you have things like popcorn which is different yet all together. So basically if you have a surplus of corn that's going for feed, you are stuck with it.

The big Ag giants are already taking hits. Deere is laying off people and potentially closing stores because the ag economy is already hurting. I think ADM took some big losses last year too. I hate to be doom and gloom but I think a lot of people out here have seen this big crash coming for a long time. Insane land prices, low commodity prices, and sky rocketing equipment and input prices aren't sustainable. A lot of farmers are millions in debt. Someday it's all coming crashing down and I'm very fearful of the fallout when it does. Like I said earlier. The farm economy is a huge chunk of the rural economy. Not to mention the potential for food insecurity in the country if there is a huge collapse.
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Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

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IMADreamer wrote:It's a great question, and I know a lot of farmers who didnt' vote for Trump because they knew what would happen. I also know of some who voted for him because of his promise to spend on infrastructure. Particularly upgrades to the locks on the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers which are in desperate shape.
So here's where it gets real perplexing to me.

They are in an industry that relies on export and they hear that Trump will isolate us from the rest of the world--especially Mexico, who purchases a lot of corn from them. This is really bad to the point of devastating to their livelihoods.

They hear that Trump will improve infrastructure, but what good does infrastructure do if they are millions in debt as you noted and they are going out of business? The locks on rivers is effectively meaningless when faced with the larger reality of their homes and livelihood being jeopardized.

It's like if I said to you "Hey, I'm going to destroy the engine in your car, but I promise I'll get you new tires" and you go "New tires! Huzzah! He's giving us new tires!"
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Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by MrCrowesGarden »

themiddle54 wrote:
IMADreamer wrote:It's a great question, and I know a lot of farmers who didnt' vote for Trump because they knew what would happen. I also know of some who voted for him because of his promise to spend on infrastructure. Particularly upgrades to the locks on the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers which are in desperate shape.
So here's where it gets real perplexing to me.

They are in an industry that relies on export and they hear that Trump will isolate us from the rest of the world--especially Mexico, who purchases a lot of corn from them. This is really bad to the point of devastating to their livelihoods.

They hear that Trump will improve infrastructure, but what good does infrastructure do if they are millions in debt as you noted and they are going out of business? The locks on rivers is effectively meaningless when faced with the larger reality of their homes and livelihood being jeopardized.

It's like if I said to you "Hey, I'm going to destroy the engine in your car, but I promise I'll get you new tires" and you go "New tires! Huzzah! He's giving us new tires!"
Unfortunately, I think you and I and a lot of other people know exactly why many Trump voters voted against their best interests.

My father-in-law is from a small town in Nebraska but now lives in Lincoln. When his side of the family comes to visit, Lincoln might as well be Mars. His brother-in-law watches nothing but Fox News at the farm all day. The last time they were in town, he asked how many mosques Lincoln had and if my FIL was scared for his life.
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Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by Joe Shlabotnik »

themiddle54 wrote: I want so badly to understand this and to not think these people are just [expletive] stupid to their core but I'm not left with much choice. Because this behavior, voting for Trump, is so lacking in common sense that it can't be much else.
I hear you middle. I wonder this every day. How have I so badly misjudged the country I live in and what it really is?
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Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

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MrCrowesGarden wrote:
themiddle54 wrote:
IMADreamer wrote:It's a great question, and I know a lot of farmers who didnt' vote for Trump because they knew what would happen. I also know of some who voted for him because of his promise to spend on infrastructure. Particularly upgrades to the locks on the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers which are in desperate shape.
So here's where it gets real perplexing to me.

They are in an industry that relies on export and they hear that Trump will isolate us from the rest of the world--especially Mexico, who purchases a lot of corn from them. This is really bad to the point of devastating to their livelihoods.

They hear that Trump will improve infrastructure, but what good does infrastructure do if they are millions in debt as you noted and they are going out of business? The locks on rivers is effectively meaningless when faced with the larger reality of their homes and livelihood being jeopardized.

It's like if I said to you "Hey, I'm going to destroy the engine in your car, but I promise I'll get you new tires" and you go "New tires! Huzzah! He's giving us new tires!"
Unfortunately, I think you and I and a lot of other people know exactly why many Trump voters voted against their best interests.

My father-in-law is from a small town in Nebraska but now lives in Lincoln. When his side of the family comes to visit, Lincoln might as well be Mars. His brother-in-law watches nothing but Fox News at the farm all day. The last time they were in town, he asked how many mosques Lincoln had and if my FIL was scared for his life.
We've heard on here that you can't call Trump people racist. Or stupid. I would love to believe that they are neither but I've yet to get a compelling explanation.
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Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

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IMADreamer wrote:The big Ag giants are already taking hits. Deere is laying off people and potentially closing stores because the ag economy is already hurting. I think ADM took some big losses last year too. I hate to be doom and gloom but I think a lot of people out here have seen this big crash coming for a long time. Insane land prices, low commodity prices, and sky rocketing equipment and input prices aren't sustainable. A lot of farmers are millions in debt. Someday it's all coming crashing down and I'm very fearful of the fallout when it does. Like I said earlier. The farm economy is a huge chunk of the rural economy. Not to mention the potential for food insecurity in the country if there is a huge collapse.
This is some scary stuff. I hope you are wrong.
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Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by Leroy »

Who said you can't call Trump a racist? I don't think I ever said that. I have no idea, he could very well be.

But then I'm a racist according to this forum.
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Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by IMADreamer »

themiddle54 wrote:
IMADreamer wrote:It's a great question, and I know a lot of farmers who didnt' vote for Trump because they knew what would happen. I also know of some who voted for him because of his promise to spend on infrastructure. Particularly upgrades to the locks on the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers which are in desperate shape.
So here's where it gets real perplexing to me.

They are in an industry that relies on export and they hear that Trump will isolate us from the rest of the world--especially Mexico, who purchases a lot of corn from them. This is really bad to the point of devastating to their livelihoods.

They hear that Trump will improve infrastructure, but what good does infrastructure do if they are millions in debt as you noted and they are going out of business? The locks on rivers is effectively meaningless when faced with the larger reality of their homes and livelihood being jeopardized.

It's like if I said to you "Hey, I'm going to destroy the engine in your car, but I promise I'll get you new tires" and you go "New tires! Huzzah! He's giving us new tires!"

and again I don't know. I didn't vote for Trump, no one in my family voted for Trump. It's so blatantly obvious he's a con man at best. I think he's much more evil actually. I don't know how to explain my neighbors actions. I know they are all scared, scared their lives are forever changed. Scared of the big bad scary Muslims that more rational people know aren't a problem, but again I think it comes back to Fox news and those conservative outlets. When the only info you get tells you everything left is bad and Muslims are going to kill you you believe it after 20 years.

I don't know. To be honest I think the only solution is revolution. I think it's the inevitable end point to all of this. There is no other way we return to a functioning political system. I know that's extreme and crackpot in itself but this country probably has to fight itself, millions die, and we know what real pain and suffering is before we over throw the oligarchs and realize that the guy that voted for Trump isn't that different from the rest of us.

Now with that said I'm sure the hell not starting a revolution. So NSA guy listening to this, I'm not your guy. I just want to drive my car, eat BBQ and bang my gf. Pretty much my plan for as long as I can still do those things. When the [expletive] hits the fan I'll just [expletive] move because this [expletive] country isn't worth dying for or going to jail for.

pioneer98 wrote:
IMADreamer wrote:The big Ag giants are already taking hits. Deere is laying off people and potentially closing stores because the ag economy is already hurting. I think ADM took some big losses last year too. I hate to be doom and gloom but I think a lot of people out here have seen this big crash coming for a long time. Insane land prices, low commodity prices, and sky rocketing equipment and input prices aren't sustainable. A lot of farmers are millions in debt. Someday it's all coming crashing down and I'm very fearful of the fallout when it does. Like I said earlier. The farm economy is a huge chunk of the rural economy. Not to mention the potential for food insecurity in the country if there is a huge collapse.
This is some scary stuff. I hope you are wrong.

Me too. I really hope I am but there is this rarely spoken about elephant in the room that only gets talked about in hushed circles, and that's all of this around us has to end. Land prices are 15k an acre here and 2$ corn can't pay for it. Cash rent is $500 an acre in spots. $300 everywhere. Seed corn now costs around $200 a bag for the good stuff, NH3 can occasionally spike to $1000 a ton. Fertilizer through the roof. New combines with heads will be damn near a million dollars after it's all said and done. Wait until interest rates go up and see that pain. A million dollars buys you almost nothing in farming today.

This is all a big house of cards and it's coming down someday. I think people can't fathom the devastation. Don't worry though, I've heard everyone say we can all just move to the city and get those good jobs there. Right? Totally no jobs or housing problems in the city.
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Re: Getting What They Wanted - And Not Liking It.

Post by cardsfansince82 »

Leroy wrote:Who said you can't call Trump a racist? I don't think I ever said that. I have no idea, he could very well be.
Trump is pretty clearly racist and I'm not sure how you can claim to have no idea about it.

Middle was referring to all of the whining any time someone calls Trump voters racist.
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