Weinstein, Toback, and other monsters

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ghostrunner
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Weinstein, Toback, and other monsters

Post by ghostrunner »

I don't think we've had a thread for this specifically, though it's been mentioned in a couple threads. Started this in Social and moved to politics, since it started going there.

Just read this new piece about Annabella Sciorra, and I just feel wrecked.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-des ... -weinstein

There's audio in that story of Weinstein trying to wear some woman down, trying to shame her into staying with him when she clearly wants to leave. Just absolutely nauseating.

My wife has an incident like the one in the audio clip involving a mutual friend of ours who I had known since high school, and I was there. I actually intervened to try and get him to back off. I had all but forgotten it until I started reading this stuff. Too complicated to get into, but it's weird how i buried it. I was friends on Facebook with this guy until a couple days ago. How the hell did I forget?

This past year is really [expletive] my world up. Trump being elected was already making me think twice about whether the world was ever the place I thought it was. I can't believe we did that, but the further along I go the less I see Trump specifically as the problem so much as our whole system which I used to have some essential faith in.

I decided in the past couple months to give myself a break and try and get back into movies since that's always been what's buoyed me and having kids made that more difficult. I've been out to see 4 movies in the past few months, and it's helped a bit. Now this Weinstein story comes out. I've always known Hollywood is full of [expletive] and self-centered people, but that's not so different from anywhere else. There's also a lot of good people doing good work with good intentions. But - I was kind of a Miramax fan in the 90's. They made what I considered the best movies back then. To find out this was going on behind the scenes, I feel punched in the gut. From a company that made movies that seemed thoughtful. Not only that but James Toback was doing the same to hundreds of women. So if you were an actress the past couple of decades, odds are good you came in contact with one of these men. Both in some cases. So how many more are there?

I remember when the Cosby news was breaking, early on I was a bit skeptical. It crossed my mind that maybe these women were just trying to get some money or attention. I remember thinking during the Anita Hill trial that her story sounded unconvincing because she stayed in contact with Clarence Thomas after the abuse. Bill Clinton got a pass from many, me included. There's politics involved, but odds are good he probably raped one of those accusers. Even if none of those are true, he took advantage of a woman he had power over. Consensual or not, it's abuse. Our current President is likely guilty of the same things, in addition to all his other flaws.

I'm rambling and venting and making this too much about myself. But I feel as though radical change is needed. In DC, Hollywood, and elsewhere. It's not a rash response to a new problem, but a recognition that the problem has always been there. I don't think it's as simple as fixing everything by putting women in charge, but I feel pretty strongly that's a part of what needs to happen. I'm hoping the elections in 2018 tilt the scales that direction and that Hollywood does whatever it can manage. The more that change comes from within, the better.
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IMADreamer
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Re: Weinstein, Toback, and other monsters

Post by IMADreamer »

The people of power are just part of the story. There are unfathomable monsters in this world. My gf from the time she was a teen to just a few years ago faced sexual abuse every day of her life. I know some here think she deserved it at points in her life because of her job but they are wrong. The monsters in her life particularly when she was young are just unfathomable.


My late gf certainly faced pressure at times. She was an analyst for a huge agriculture company and while her superiors were good to her she at on point had a random employee who thought she was just a receptionist grab her ass and tell her he could get her a raise. Thankfully she's was a strong willed woman and she immediately called security, hr, and the guy was fired on the spot.

With all that said though there are good people too. For example in that last situation her boss went off on that guy and basically brought the company to a halt for a day to let others know that was unacceptable.

So while I think it's widespread and I think we don't even know how widespread as we learn more and more women speak out we will see this fundamental shift in our society.
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Re: Weinstein, Toback, and other monsters

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IMADreamer wrote:My late gf certainly faced pressure at times. She was an analyst for a huge agriculture company and while her superiors were good to her she at on point had a random employee who thought she was just a receptionist grab her ass and tell her he could get her a raise. Thankfully she's was a strong willed woman and she immediately called security, hr, and the guy was fired on the spot.

With all that said though there are good people too. For example in that last situation her boss went off on that guy and basically brought the company to a halt for a day to let others know that was unacceptable.
It's very enlightening that the guy's main mistake was thinking she was a receptionist. He thought he was higher up in the hierarchy than her. If the guy that did it was way up the ladder, it probably would have been a very different experience for her.
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Re: Weinstein, Toback, and other monsters

Post by pioneer98 »

When you look at the list of scandals involving misogyny in the last year, it's pretty clear that there is no industry that is immune. Silicon Valley has a huge problem, with Uber being the most prominent case. Hollywood. Fox News. We have Trump and a gob of other politicians that are guilty in D.C. Several of the most powerful people in the entire country are all white men and many of them have a problem with harassing women. This is what it means when people say we live in a "patriarchy". It's not just that white men have the top spots in the hierarchy, it's that to create and reinforce the hierarchy, they need to punch downward, too. This is why just putting more women in some of these top positions will not fix everything. For one, it's clear that some women don't see things this way (Trump got more votes among white women than Hillary, after all, which is still mind-blowing to me), and two, we already have some women in a few top positions such as CEO's and things like that. Their companies might be better places to work for women than others, but it has not impacted the overall culture very much. Female CEO's still have stockholders and boards that they have to report to. It's very easy to argue that boards hire female CEO's just to appear to be more enlightened, while the reality is less flattering.
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Re: Weinstein, Toback, and other monsters

Post by BottenFieldofDreams »

I just finished the audiobook of Bossypants. To my discredit, it is probably the most feminist book I've read outside of academics.

She has a short but damning bit on Weinsteins.
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Re: Weinstein, Toback, and other monsters

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

pioneer98 wrote:When you look at the list of scandals involving misogyny in the last year, it's pretty clear that there is no industry that is immune. Silicon Valley has a huge problem, with Uber being the most prominent case. Hollywood. Fox News. We have Trump and a gob of other politicians that are guilty in D.C. Several of the most powerful people in the entire country are all white men and many of them have a problem with harassing women. This is what it means when people say we live in a "patriarchy". It's not just that white men have the top spots in the hierarchy, it's that to create and reinforce the hierarchy, they need to punch downward, too. This is why just putting more women in some of these top positions will not fix everything. For one, it's clear that some women don't see things this way (Trump got more votes among white women than Hillary, after all, which is still mind-blowing to me), and two, we already have some women in a few top positions such as CEO's and things like that. Their companies might be better places to work for women than others, but it has not impacted the overall culture very much. Female CEO's still have stockholders and boards that they have to report to. It's very easy to argue that boards hire female CEO's just to appear to be more enlightened, while the reality is less flattering.
I've often wondered if that's true. I don't know either way, but I would tend to agree that the politics of sexism factors into the decision making in some part. Though I obviously have no proof.

Undoubtedly CEO's have boards and shareholders to answer to, so while they're the face of companies, they're not immune to public relations and controversy.
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Re: Weinstein, Toback, and other monsters

Post by MrCrowesGarden »

Kevin Spacey appears to be toast now.
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ghostrunner
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Re: Weinstein, Toback, and other monsters

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MrCrowesGarden wrote:Kevin Spacey appears to be toast now.
How do 4-5 major news outlets run with a headline only mentioning Spacey coming out? What the hell is going on there? Doesn't even make sense from a business perspective, as it's not as sensational as what actually happened.
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Re: Weinstein, Toback, and other monsters

Post by MrCrowesGarden »

ghostrunner wrote:
MrCrowesGarden wrote:Kevin Spacey appears to be toast now.
How do 4-5 major news outlets run with a headline only mentioning Spacey coming out? What the hell is going on there? Doesn't even make sense from a business perspective, as it's not as sensational as what actually happened.
Yes that was pitiful. That can be a story another day, any other day. It was obviously a calculated move by Spacey’s team.
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Re: Weinstein, Toback, and other monsters

Post by thrill »

MrCrowesGarden wrote:
ghostrunner wrote:
MrCrowesGarden wrote:Kevin Spacey appears to be toast now.
How do 4-5 major news outlets run with a headline only mentioning Spacey coming out? What the hell is going on there? Doesn't even make sense from a business perspective, as it's not as sensational as what actually happened.
Yes that was pitiful. That can be a story another day, any other day. It was obviously a calculated move by Spacey’s team.
Fitting that first he damaged the gay community by shamefully and aggressively defending his space in the closet and now damages it even further by equating pederasty with being gay, a stigma that has followed gay people since, well, forever probably. He's now going to be a proud, "gay" man rather than a disgraced predator of teen boys.
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