Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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IronPenguin
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

Post by IronPenguin »

33anda3rd wrote:
IronPenguin wrote:This is a really disingenuous argument...
That's all really nice, welcome to the board. I was a Bernie donor--the max allowed by law--in 2016, and I phone banked for him, and now I'm over him because it's not Bernie v Clinton only and there are better candidates who don't come across as a cranky northeastern complaining grandfather. I prefer more the more sober candidates. I kinda LOL when I imagine Sanders in a cabinet meeting, told by some Joint Chiefs guy that Bernie can't do exactly what he wants in some remote part of the world because of the balance of international security, and Bernie then yelling at the guy that it shouldn't be that way. I kinda LOL when I think of Bernie going to do the State of the Union--is it maybe Trump-ish in that, after a couple years in office without much change, Sanders stands in front of Congress yelling and complaining and pointing fingers? What can we point to in life, beyond his movement/fame, in which we can say "Bernie Sanders led that group toward tangible results that produced change?" I think that's a question a lot of people need to ask themselves who are still Team Sanders: how do you see him leading not a movement based in repeated soundbites of complaint, but our federal government? How do you see him managing the EU and the UK during Brexit? How do you see him dealing with North Korea? With Iran? Let's be real: he's as hard-line as Trump, shows very little flexibility, is very dismissive of non-Sanders ideas.

While you're on your soapbox about the masses of people it takes to form a movement to change the world, describe how that led to Lincoln, the first or second Roosevelt, or LBJ, highly popular (the latter three at least) Presidents who used big govt. for good.
I've never been accused of being brief, so since this is a thread about Biden I'll just start a new one and post my response there.
Freed Roger
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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Con- the Anita Hill episode.
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Big Amoco Sign
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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Schlich
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

Post by Schlich »

PRESIDENT MY BOSS
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Smith Corks One
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

Post by Smith Corks One »

Schlich wrote:PRESIDENT MY BOSS
Wow. I understand brain farts and the occasional "senior moment" and stuff, but this seems like more than that. I hope I'm not accused of ageism (something Bill Maher does every time a guest mentions a candidate's age), but doesn't there have to come a point where we say it just doesn't make sense? He would be 78 when he took office; I think Bernie is even older, though his mind seems sharper. Warren is an absolutely young, vibrant spring chicken compared to these two.
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lukethedrifter
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

Post by lukethedrifter »

Schlich wrote:PRESIDENT MY BOSS

I’m not making excuses but i do that sort of thing regularly and have for years.
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33anda3rd
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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Even Biden is now like "eh, I'm mostly cons, pick whoever."
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pioneer98
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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JOE BIDEN’S STUNNINGLY RACIST ANSWER ON THE LEGACY OF SLAVERY HAS BEEN OVERLOOKED

The article has the full quote from the debate but this is the key part:
In response to a question on the legacy of slavery, Biden said: “We bring social workers into homes of parents to help them deal with how to raise their children. It’s not that they don’t want to help, they don’t want — they don’t know quite what to do.”

Author Anand Giridharadas flagged the moment. “Is this not one of the most explicitly racist moments of all time in a Democratic primary debate?” he wondered. “Asked about his past comments denying responsibility, as a white man, for America’s sins, he gives an answer insinuating that black parents don’t know how to raise kids.”
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pioneer98
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

Post by pioneer98 »

I had forgotten this one but holy [expletive]:
Biden’s political approach to race has long been geared toward assuaging the racial anxieties of white voters. Biden has even deployed his — at best — racial insensitivity toward Barack Obama himself. “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” Biden declared in 2007. It’s an irony that he was added to Obama’s ticket not in spite of his racial politics, but because of them.
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33anda3rd
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Re: Joe Biden - Pros & Cons

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pioneer98 wrote:I had forgotten this one but holy [expletive]:
Biden’s political approach to race has long been geared toward assuaging the racial anxieties of white voters. Biden has even deployed his — at best — racial insensitivity toward Barack Obama himself. “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy,” Biden declared in 2007. It’s an irony that he was added to Obama’s ticket not in spite of his racial politics, but because of them.
2007 is downright quaint at this point. IMO you can't hold anyone accountable for what they said in 2007 that is insensitive but was not widely considered insensitive until now. Go read the rant thread on Michael Phelps' mom. A thread started by a guy who lived at least a little vicariously through his HS sports coach kid, whose best friend lived more than a little vicariously through his HS baseball playing kid, that was a thread about how much he hated a female parent for cheering on her athlete kid. Basically a misogynistic rant about a woman doing something he did himself. That thread is full of ugly comments. It was a different time, even though it wasn't that long ago, and while jim and iron mike never changed and jim is 100% for sure a misogynist ass, a couple people in that thread have changed, their comments were ugly but not socially unacceptable then, and it's not worth shunning them for going with what was, back then, a normal boys being boys type of thing.

At some point between then and now we culturally decided that "hey man it's just boys bein' boys I mean we work hard but we play hard too, y'know?" is no longer ok. It's a popular thing now, esp with kids, to want to crucify everyone over 40 for [expletive] they did 25 years ago because they didn't know any better, and that's [expletive] BS. If Biden were out burning crosses, it's one thing, but clumsy language by a 60-something year old guy from Delaware whose whole thing is "hey I'm just ol' charming blue collar Joe" is another. Raping Rose McGowan is one thing, saying "I'd hit it" on a baseball board is another. We have to be sensible about these things. There's a lot to dislike in Biden, and part of it is that he's too old. He's not racist, it's just that he was raised at a time, and had these phrases ingrained in him over 70-some years that are hard to get away from.

Edit to add...

You'd never hear Biden use the n-word. Never. Ever. Because he knows it's wrong, was raised to know it's wrong. But he wasn't raised to know it's wrong to say a black man is "clean" or "well-spoken" or that those things are considered at least pandering to someone racially, and at worst downright racist. He just doesn't know how to talk in the modern terms. My mother-in-law is 91, conservative Irish Catholic. She says [expletive] all the time that's kinda racist. Will ask any brown restaurant server "Now where are you from?" It's just this dumb generational thing that she will never un-learn. She's not hateful, she just doesn't know how to talk to people like it's not 1941 anymore.

That Biden can't un-learn language and mores doesn't make him an awful person. It does make him unfit to be POTUS, IMO, because we need a POTUS who can speak without using terms like that.
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