Coronavirus

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cardinalkarp
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by cardinalkarp »

There has definitely been some good points made, probably not enough for me to go out and get the vaccine, but I see your perspective.

I understand that the mRNA vaccine technology has been around for a very long time, and they’ve attempted to use the technology for numerous other corona viruses and failed.

And GK, I know you continually say the vaccine is very safe, but what are you basing that on other than the data that’s been collected by the trials and the few months that’s it been available to the population? I think we all agree that vaccines typically go through a much more stringent test period to ensure safety....and obviously that extensive testing was not done in this case. Big pharma has been given full immunity if anything is to happen regarding potential side effects (long or short term) of the vaccine...and that alone is concerning to me. It’s pretty simple, the long term potential effects are an unknown....and granted, that goes both ways....the long term effects of covid are unknown as well.

Again, it all comes down to where I think the most risk lies....is it getting covid and the known/unknown of that or w/ the known/unknown of the vaccine?

At some point I might have my hand forced, but as of now I feel comfortable in continuing to be very careful, limiting my exposure (not really going to crowded public places), and always wearing a mask when out and about....and honestly, I’m okay w/ that.

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Radbird
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Radbird »

I was at a couple of stores today and only saw one person without a mask. She glared everyone like she was daring them to comment. I think she was looking for a Karen moment.

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by CardsofSTL »

Radbird wrote:
May 14 21, 10:31 pm
I was at a couple of stores today and only saw one person without a mask. She glared everyone like she was daring them to comment. I think she was looking for a Karen moment.
That's when you say "Would you mind putting on a mask? It's not about the virus; I just can't stand looking at your face."

AWvsCBsteeeerike3
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by AWvsCBsteeeerike3 »

CardsofSTL wrote:
May 15 21, 5:23 am
Radbird wrote:
May 14 21, 10:31 pm
I was at a couple of stores today and only saw one person without a mask. She glared everyone like she was daring them to comment. I think she was looking for a Karen moment.
That's when you say "Would you mind putting on a mask? It's not about the virus; I just can't stand looking at your face."
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sighyoung
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by sighyoung »

My son's been in Taiwan for a year-and-a-half, and is planning to return to the states in June or July. He's been fortunate because Taiwan had successfully contained the virus until recently, and he's been able to work, take classes, and draw on college savings.

Now there's a recent outbreak centered in Taipei that may cause problems throughout the island. The country is scrambling to try to contain the spread, and there's the kind of hoarding that we saw in the U.S. in early stages of the pandemic last year. I'm hoping that he can get vaccinated and get out of there safely. AstraZeneca is the vaccine available there, which isn't my first choice, but there it is. Many people haven't gotten the vaccine because the infection rate in the country has been so low, so I'm not sure what's going to unfold there in the next few weeks.

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AdmiralKird
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by AdmiralKird »

cardinalkarp wrote:
May 14 21, 7:09 pm
There has definitely been some good points made, probably not enough for me to go out and get the vaccine, but I see your perspective.

I understand that the mRNA vaccine technology has been around for a very long time, and they’ve attempted to use the technology for numerous other corona viruses and failed.

And GK, I know you continually say the vaccine is very safe, but what are you basing that on other than the data that’s been collected by the trials and the few months that’s it been available to the population? I think we all agree that vaccines typically go through a much more stringent test period to ensure safety....and obviously that extensive testing was not done in this case. Big pharma has been given full immunity if anything is to happen regarding potential side effects (long or short term) of the vaccine...and that alone is concerning to me. It’s pretty simple, the long term potential effects are an unknown....and granted, that goes both ways....the long term effects of covid are unknown as well.

Again, it all comes down to where I think the most risk lies....is it getting covid and the known/unknown of that or w/ the known/unknown of the vaccine?

At some point I might have my hand forced, but as of now I feel comfortable in continuing to be very careful, limiting my exposure (not really going to crowded public places), and always wearing a mask when out and about....and honestly, I’m okay w/ that.
Theres nothing in the pfizer and moderna vaccines can cause long-term problems. It's just a bundle of nonsense with a spike proteins that your body binds to and then destroys. Nothing from it stays in your system. The only thing it leaves you with is an intruder entry written by your own body in its registry adding the unique key to pulverizing covid-19 immediately if it enters your system. It's not like it's a pharmaceutical "I wonder what this will do" drug that's been trialed on mice, rats, monkeys, and humans over a twenty year period to alter biochemistry and stabilize an irregular heartbeat or what-have-you. To worry about long-term effects of the mRNA vaccines is akin to worrying that your house might catch fire in 2031 because you put a metal PO Box key on your keyring in 2021. The concern fundamentally doesn't make any sense because there isn't a reasonable causality chain.

It's honestly hard respond to your argument because it's a common logical fallacy specifically called an argument from ignorance. It's impossible to prove incorrect despite all available information pointing towards it being incorrect because your required proof is extraordinarily and unreasonably high. There simply can't be something like a 100 year study on the covid-19 mRNA vaccines.

In the simplest form there are two options for us to chose from: "get the vaccine" or "don't get the vaccine." All, ALL, possible collected and available information on the covid-19 mRNA vaccines have currently concluded they are 100% safe and 90% effective. We know what they're comprised of, how they function, how they affect the body, what they do, what they leave behind, and have conducted clinical trials across both small and large portions of the population of many countries. Yet karp, since your req'd burden of proof to chose "get the vaccine" is impossible to fulfill, and you only have two options to choose from, your decision immediately swings 180 degrees and chooses the only other available option: "don't get the vaccine."

The bizarre thing about this is there's no way anyone would normally make decisions like this because if they did they'd constantly be choosing the option that would be harmful. Like... if I were to be in the center of a really tall bridge, and wanted to get off said really tall bridge, I would probably have only 95% of the information available that says I should not jump off that bridge. I don't know the exact height of the bridge, nor how fast I will actually be traveling when I hit the water, but it looks pretty high. Given all the arrows from what I know point towards "don't jump," I would chose to not jump off the bridge despite not knowing the complete picture. If I were to deduce I absolutely needed that information to prove it was not a good idea to jump off the bridge, and elected to jump off the bridge instead in its absence, well, I would be insane.

I don't really care if one person gets the vaccine or not, but there's something that's causing your brain's regular decision-making process to short-circuit. I don't know what it is but it's there and you'd be well-served to try and locate it and rid yourself of its influence.

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cardinalkarp
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by cardinalkarp »

AdmiralKird wrote:
May 16 21, 8:28 am
cardinalkarp wrote:
May 14 21, 7:09 pm
There has definitely been some good points made, probably not enough for me to go out and get the vaccine, but I see your perspective.

I understand that the mRNA vaccine technology has been around for a very long time, and they’ve attempted to use the technology for numerous other corona viruses and failed.

And GK, I know you continually say the vaccine is very safe, but what are you basing that on other than the data that’s been collected by the trials and the few months that’s it been available to the population? I think we all agree that vaccines typically go through a much more stringent test period to ensure safety....and obviously that extensive testing was not done in this case. Big pharma has been given full immunity if anything is to happen regarding potential side effects (long or short term) of the vaccine...and that alone is concerning to me. It’s pretty simple, the long term potential effects are an unknown....and granted, that goes both ways....the long term effects of covid are unknown as well.

Again, it all comes down to where I think the most risk lies....is it getting covid and the known/unknown of that or w/ the known/unknown of the vaccine?

At some point I might have my hand forced, but as of now I feel comfortable in continuing to be very careful, limiting my exposure (not really going to crowded public places), and always wearing a mask when out and about....and honestly, I’m okay w/ that.
Theres nothing in the pfizer and moderna vaccines can cause long-term problems. It's just a bundle of nonsense with a spike proteins that your body binds to and then destroys. Nothing from it stays in your system. The only thing it leaves you with is an intruder entry written by your own body in its registry adding the unique key to pulverizing covid-19 immediately if it enters your system. It's not like it's a pharmaceutical "I wonder what this will do" drug that's been trialed on mice, rats, monkeys, and humans over a twenty year period to alter biochemistry and stabilize an irregular heartbeat or what-have-you. To worry about long-term effects of the mRNA vaccines is akin to worrying that your house might catch fire in 2031 because you put a metal PO Box key on your keyring in 2021. The concern fundamentally doesn't make any sense because there isn't a reasonable causality chain.

It's honestly hard respond to your argument because it's a common logical fallacy specifically called an argument from ignorance. It's impossible to prove incorrect despite all available information pointing towards it being incorrect because your required proof is extraordinarily and unreasonably high. There simply can't be something like a 100 year study on the covid-19 mRNA vaccines.

In the simplest form there are two options for us to chose from: "get the vaccine" or "don't get the vaccine." All, ALL, possible collected and available information on the covid-19 mRNA vaccines have currently concluded they are 100% safe and 90% effective. We know what they're comprised of, how they function, how they affect the body, what they do, what they leave behind, and have conducted clinical trials across both small and large portions of the population of many countries. Yet karp, since your req'd burden of proof to chose "get the vaccine" is impossible to fulfill, and you only have two options to choose from, your decision immediately swings 180 degrees and chooses the only other available option: "don't get the vaccine."

The bizarre thing about this is there's no way anyone would normally make decisions like this because if they did they'd constantly be choosing the option that would be harmful. Like... if I were to be in the center of a really tall bridge, and wanted to get off said really tall bridge, I would probably have only 95% of the information available that says I should not jump off that bridge. I don't know the exact height of the bridge, nor how fast I will actually be traveling when I hit the water, but it looks pretty high. Given all the arrows from what I know point towards "don't jump," I would chose to not jump off the bridge despite not knowing the complete picture. If I were to deduce I absolutely needed that information to prove it was not a good idea to jump off the bridge, and elected to jump off the bridge instead in its absence, well, I would be insane.

I don't really care if one person gets the vaccine or not, but there's something that's causing your brain's regular decision-making process to short-circuit. I don't know what it is but it's there and you'd be well-served to try and locate it and rid yourself of its influence.
Honestly, I’m not going to respond to every point of this long winded post that boils down to saying my brain is short circuiting because I’m not putting my blind faith in a vaccine that has only been approved for experimental use.

I could have stopped reading when you said “the vaccine is 100% safe” because not only are you bull [expletive] me, you’re bull [expletive] yourself if you truly believe that. There have been plenty of documented cases where people have serious side effects (and in some cases death, which I’m sure you’ll label as a “coincidence”).

To be frank, honesty is what I want out of people pimping this vaccine (and there is information out there giving both sides, but you won’t here that from the government or MSM)...and you spouting the “it’s 100% safe” line of BS tells me I’m not going to get it from you either.

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CardsofSTL
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by CardsofSTL »

sighyoung wrote:
May 16 21, 8:14 am
My son's been in Taiwan for a year-and-a-half, and is planning to return to the states in June or July. He's been fortunate because Taiwan had successfully contained the virus until recently, and he's been able to work, take classes, and draw on college savings.

Now there's a recent outbreak centered in Taipei that may cause problems throughout the island. The country is scrambling to try to contain the spread, and there's the kind of hoarding that we saw in the U.S. in early stages of the pandemic last year. I'm hoping that he can get vaccinated and get out of there safely. AstraZeneca is the vaccine available there, which isn't my first choice, but there it is. Many people haven't gotten the vaccine because the infection rate in the country has been so low, so I'm not sure what's going to unfold there in the next few weeks.
Good luck to your son Sigh...hope he stays safe.

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AdmiralKird
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by AdmiralKird »

cardinalkarp wrote:
May 16 21, 10:57 am
Honestly, I’m not going to respond to every point of this long winded post that boils down to saying my brain is short circuiting because I’m not putting my blind faith in a vaccine that has only been approved for experimental use.

I could have stopped reading when you said “the vaccine is 100% safe” because not only are you bull [expletive] me, you’re bull [expletive] yourself if you truly believe that. There have been plenty of documented cases where people have serious side effects (and in some cases death, which I’m sure you’ll label as a “coincidence”).

To be frank, honesty is what I want out of people pimping this vaccine (and there is information out there giving both sides, but you won’t here that from the government or MSM)...and you spouting the “it’s 100% safe” line of BS tells me I’m not going to get it from you either.
All possible collected and available information on the pfizer and moderna mRNA vaccines have currently concluded they are 100% safe, yes. To say it's not is to conjure hypothetical data that doesn't exist that runs contrary to all available information into the current conclusion. There are side effects and a small percentage have had severe side effects but in every examined case they have been managed. The side effects stem from your immune system being fully activated when it would normally be dormant. Plus those rare people who do have severe side effects to the vaccine are far more likely to be in jeopardy if they encountered the covid-19 virus than the inert vaccine. There are zero cases in nearly a billion doses administered that have concluded the mRNA vaccines were the cause nor even a factor in a single death.

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Richie Allen
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Richie Allen »

Vaccines are one of the greatest miracles of humanity. They've been taken more and more for granted by the past few generations, partly because so many diseases have been eradicated, either completely or for the most part, through immunizations. And despite what some argue, they weren't going to just go away on their own. And there's no benefit to getting the disease rather than bother with the shot. Seriously, that's just a little on the insane side.

I do know something that we are currently unaware of. The potential life-long affects for those who've endured the virus. Both those that barely made it and those that barely knew they had it. For me, that's something that makes sense to worry about. Not potential vaccine injury.

I don't want to come across condescending but anyone that is on the fence about this vaccine should take some time and learn more about the history of vaccines. There's virtually no reason to not trust that they're safe. And yet there are some people that will choose to not get it this week that will be in the ground by next month.

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